AIG is of the Devil

#27
#27
droski said:
i can just read it now. well jim brought in 10% of this 100,000,000 mil account. patty brought 5%. jim's analysis on bobs derivatives trade provided about 10% of the profit on bob's derivates trade. sometimes i wonder if any of you have actually worked for a living. how are your bonuses determined exactly?
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Mine are determined by the company-wide performance. If our company has a bad year, I have a bad bonus year.
 
#28
#28
droski said:
right. so it wouldnt' be burdensome at all for them to write 10,000 seperate justifications for the bonuses. are you TRYING to get all these people to leave? even the obama administration seems to want these bonuses paid.
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If they are the top talent, why are they there in the first place?

And who said names had to be named? Employee X works in this division, made this much for the company, and was paid this bonus.

I don't see why that isn't reasonable as long a public funds are used.
 
#31
#31
droski said:
i'm not understanding the question.
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You keep arguing that these bonuses are required to keep these top performers and finding employment for them elsewhere shouldn't be an issue. My question is if these are top performers, why would they want to stay at a company where their bonus is being paid out of public funds and scrutinized?
 
#32
#32
droski said:
what? you still earn a bonus if your company has a bad year? disgusting!
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No, I'm saying my bonus is directly related to company performance. I can't see any circumstances where if we needed public funds to stay afloat I would be getting a dime in bonus money.
 
#33
#33
rjd970 said:
You keep arguing that these bonuses are required to keep these top performers and finding employment for them elsewhere shouldn't be an issue. My question is if these are top performers, why would they want to stay at a company where their bonus is being paid out of public funds and scrutinized?
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i'm sure the overwelming majority already have left. i certainly know a crapload of citibank and bank of america employees that have switched to non tarp firms. perhaps many are staying because of their bonus. maybe they actually like their job.

what no one here will do is answer the simple questoin. if these people aren't valuable why would AIG give them bonuses? just for the hell of it? wouldn't they rather give the money to someone else? or pay off the govt? or give it to charity?
 
#34
#34
rjd970 said:
No, I'm saying my bonus is directly related to company performance. I can't see any circumstances where if we needed public funds to stay afloat I would be getting a dime in bonus money.
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then you must not be very valuable. do you really think say the top salesman at your firm wouldn't get a bonus if your company took public money? they are just going to give him the middle finger? rainmakers get paid in every profession. end of story.
 
#35
#35
droski said:
"AIG wants Feinberg (obama's boy) to take a look at those bonuses to make sure the government is completely comfortable with the company's compensation plan."

AIG bonuses: $235 million to go - Jul. 10, 2009

where's the problem here?
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I guess its the fact that they are whining about having to justify bonuses to the feds and so their solution is to go have the feds review these bonuses even though the law/regulation does not apply to them because they were agreed to prior to the beginning of the regulation.

They are doing that so they can say, see, the government says its okay. Even though the whole point of their current endeavor is to stop the government from having any role in it.
 
#36
#36
droski said:
i'm sure the overwelming majority already have left. i certainly know a crapload of citibank and bank of america employees that have switched to non tarp firms. perhaps many are staying because of their bonus. maybe they actually like their job.

what no one here will do is answer the simple questoin. if these people aren't valuable why would AIG give them bonuses? just for the hell of it? wouldn't they rather give the money to someone else? or pay off the govt? or give it to charity?
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Because the people deciding to give the bonuses are their friends and business partners. I am reminded of Fletch telling the servers at the tennis club to "Give each other $20, charge it to the Underhills."
 
#37
#37
lawgator1 said:
Even though the whole point of their current endeavor is to stop the government from having any role in it.
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yes. that's why they released this information and had the government review them before even thinking about paying the bonuses.

lawgator1 said:
Because the people deciding to give the bonuses are their friends and business partners.
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link? is that how you run your business? what's the upside for these execs doing this? jail? getting fired? do you really think they'd allow obama's guy to look over the bonuses if they were going to their buddies? really?
 
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#38
#38
lawgator1 said:
I guess its the fact that they are whining about having to justify bonuses to the feds and so their solution is to go have the feds review these bonuses even though the law/regulation does not apply to them because they were agreed to prior to the beginning of the regulation.
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didn't the feds carve out the exemptions for these guys?
 
#39
#39
droski said:
then you must not be very valuable. do you really think say the top salesman at your firm wouldn't get a bonus if your company took public money? they are just going to give him the middle finger? rainmakers get paid in every profession. end of story.
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I would like to think they wouldn't take the public funds in the first place.

How are these bonuses different from the commission they earn on accounts?
 
#40
#40
rjd970 said:
How are these bonuses different from commission?
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many financial companies give year end bonsuses based on the years production i.e. commissions (if they are a commision based position). for instance a investment banker might get a bonus based on how many deals he brought in that year. it is part of their salary.
 
#41
#41
droski said:
many financial companies give year end bonsuses based on the years production i.e. commissions (if they are a commision based position). for instance a investment banker might get a bonus based on how many deals he brought in that year. it is part of their salary.
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It sounds like with these commission based positions these bonuses are a commission on the commission they earn.
 
#42
#42
utvolpj said:
didn't the feds carve out the exemptions for these guys?
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The law applied to bonuses agreed to over certain time frames. These were outside of that. You would therefore think they don't want to have to show them to the feds.

But since they want to be able to tell people, hey, these were approved, they go to the fed to get the approval they say they should not have to get.

Remarkable.
 
#43
#43
droski said:
i can just read it now. well jim brought in 10% of this 100,000,000 mil account. patty brought 5%. jim's analysis on bobs derivatives trade provided about 10% of the profit on bob's derivates trade. sometimes i wonder if any of you have actually worked for a living. how are your bonuses determined exactly?
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My bonus relies solely on two independent criteria. First is the company performance - good performance = good bonus opportunity. Second, the amount of my opportunity I acheive is based on personal performance. In my case, I must specifically document my contribution to the bottom line.

It puts business success as a whole on everyone. If I see some jackass spewing company money out his tooter I have a financial obligation to blow the whistle.
 
#44
#44
UT IE 95 said:
My bonus relies solely on two independent criteria. First is the company performance - good performance = good bonus opportunity. Second, the amount of my opportunity I acheive is based on personal performance. In my case, I must specifically document my contribution to the bottom line.

It puts business success as a whole on everyone. If I see some jackass spewing company money out his tooter I have a financial obligation to blow the whistle.
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Proven over and over that bonuses over which an individual has little control (ie whole company success) don't correlate well to high performance. Those paid on individual performance basis get results. Just some random gobbledygook from some of my org behavior courses.
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#46
#46
thought I heard somewhere today that if some of these folks leave, the policies (or products of some sort) dissolve or move. As a result people leaving would cause financial hardship for AIG and possibly the need for more gov. intervention.

I'm might have been hallucinating too....
 
#47
#47
MG1968 said:
if these bonuses are allegedly being paid with taxpayer dollars, doesn't that jive with Telemprompter Jesus' philosophy of "spreading the wealth"?

and how about the Social Security Administration holding a "training workshop" at a posh resort in Phoenix?

Phoenix - Valley Fever - Social Security Administration Holds Workers Retreat at Arizona Biltmore
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I saw the SS guy justifying this by saying it comes out of regular appropriation to their budget not from bailouts so it's okay :crazy:
 
#48
#48
BigPapaVol said:
Proven over and over that bonuses over which an individual has little control (ie whole company success) don't correlate well to high performance. Those paid on individual performance basis get results. Just some random gobbledygook from some of my org behavior courses.
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That's true for the front-line grunts. When you get higher in the org, or as droski says "rainmakers", should very much so be tied to overall performance.
 
#49
#49
UT IE 95 said:
That's true for the front-line grunts. When you get higher in the org, or as droski says "rainmakers", should very much so be tied to overall performance.
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Rainmakers should only be about their own performance. They cant control anyone else.
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#50
#50
BigPapaVol said:
Rainmakers should only be about their own performance. They cant control anyone else.
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When you get into 6 figure bonuses you have plenty of control and oversite of others. If not, I have a bigger problem with these bonuses.
 
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