‘23 AL CB Rickey Gibson (Tennessee commit)

#352
#352
Since Kirby seems to look at who this staff is offering, then swoops in late to get them, maybe this staff should do the same to lower tier schools. Yes, it would upset the “we have to have blue chip recruits to win” crowd, but if we identify the right guys at CB, we can get some outstanding ones without having to fight Georgia and Bama.

The following CBs were just drafted in the first 6 rounds of April’s draft:

Ahmad Gardner-Cincinnati
Marcus Jones-Troy/Houston
Coby Bryant-Cincinnati
Joshua Williams-Fayetteville State
Damarion Williams-Houston
Decobie Durant-SC State
Tariq Woolen-UTSA
Zyon McCollum, Sam Houston State
DaRon Bland, Fresno State
Samuel Womack, Toledo
Christian Benford, Villanova
Gregory Junior, Ouachita Baptist
Ja’Sir Taylor, Wake Forest

All of these guys were 3 star recruits or lower. Some weren’t even rated. The key is identifying them. Willie Martinez did it before with Emmanuel Mosely. If Tennessee were to go head to head with any of these schools, it’s a no-brainer that the kid picks UT.

It looks like Luke Fickell is doing a good job identifying CB talent (a 1st round pick and a 4th round pick). Maybe see who he’s targeting. Or look at the kids Houston is targeting. Go steal their recruits. They’re out there. Just gotta find them.

Of course, this assumes UT misses on Gibson and Matthews, but it’s tending that way.

Here’s the current Cincinnati class: Cincinnati 2023 Football Commits

4 CBs committed. One is a 4*, but doesn’t have the offers to compete with UT. Why not kick the tires there, given Fickell’s ability to evaluate?
 
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#353
#353
BigOrangeTrain said:
I find it hilarious that it’s somehow ridiculous to even question a coach on this staff.
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It is not ridiculous. Anyone can question whomever they want. What is ridiculous is that people who question a coach seem flabbergasted when people disagree with them. Most posters, including me, are going to take a coach's opinion over some rando poster most of us would not know from Adam if we saw them on the street. So yeah, question away. Just don't be surprised with the deluge of opposite opinions when you do.
 
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#356
#356
BigOrangeTrain said:
I find it hilarious that it’s somehow ridiculous to even question a coach on this staff.
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I find it ridiculous that some can't see the difference between a legitimate question about the staff and gratuitous negativity or even whining. Some people use this place for personal therapy.
 
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#358
#358
BoroVol93 said:
Why would you question anyone on this staff at this point ? That’s the problem with this microwave generation… coaches and players both can get better it was year 1 with a thin roster for every coach and we improved across the board from the previous year… just relax good grief some of y’all complain so much and the season ain’t even started… heup is changing the culture and if we have the season that we should then the recruiting will take care of itself.
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There are good reasons to question the staff. There are. They ran a good, well planned, legitimate competition for the QB position last year. They still selected the wrong guy to start the season. I think along with some talent/roster issues the playcalling and scheming on D deserve to be questioned.

Every coaching staff makes mistakes. They take the job and money knowing they'll work in a glass building in many ways. They cannot hide their results.

But there are people here who think their 247 account gives them direct access to UT's "board" or the minds of the coaches or what they're actually looking for in recruits. As much as some want to believe recruiting rankings are the final authority on everything... the grading of recruiting cannot really be evaluated by anything but wins and losses. I'm not claiming that the rankings are totally inaccurate or completely irrelevant... just that they aren't conclusive or the authority some do. We've seen NSD "winners" like Jones. I have a long history and have witnessed many 5* talents come and go at UT who never contributed very often because of character problems. If Heupel thinks his better risks are found in taking guys whose talent may not be as good or demonstrated in HS but will become a contributor at some level over highly talented guys that do no more on the field and create drama off it... then I'm really OK with trying that. We've tried the other and it didn't work.

We have some indications about what Heupel wants in recruits. He very much appears to value character and the quality of home a kid comes out of. He appears to favor smart kids- Sampson makes a good example. Both from "insider" reports and his actions... it appears he's passed on "blue chips" and pushed for lower rated guys without obvious reasons. In the end, this will either work out for him or it won't. He will win or he will lose.

So bottom line if you actually see something or have good sound reasoning to question a guy making $4 million per year... go for it. But coaches are ultimately judged on wins and losses.
 
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#360
#360
GregAmsler said:
Since Kirby seems to look at who this staff is offering, then swoops in late to get them, maybe this staff should do the same to lower tier schools. Yes, it would upset the “we have to have blue chip recruits to win” crowd, but if we identify the right guys at CB, we can get some outstanding ones without having to fight Georgia and Bama.

The following CBs were just drafted in the first 6 rounds of April’s draft:

Ahmad Gardner-Cincinnati
Marcus Jones-Troy/Houston
Coby Bryant-Cincinnati
Joshua Williams-Fayetteville State
Damarion Williams-Houston
Decobie Durant-SC State
Tariq Woolen-UTSA
Zyon McCollum, Sam Houston State
DaRon Bland, Fresno State
Samuel Womack, Toledo
Christian Benford, Villanova
Gregory Junior, Ouachita Baptist
Ja’Sir Taylor, Wake Forest

All of these guys were 3 star recruits or lower. Some weren’t even rated. The key is identifying them. Willie Martinez did it before with Emmanuel Mosely. If Tennessee were to go head to head with any of these schools, it’s a no-brainer that the kid picks UT.

It looks like Luke Fickell is doing a good job identifying CB talent (a 1st round pick and a 4th round pick). Maybe see who he’s targeting. Or look at the kids Houston is targeting. Go steal their recruits. They’re out there. Just gotta find them.

Of course, this assumes UT misses on Gibson and Matthews, but it’s tending that way.

Here’s the current Cincinnati class: Cincinnati 2023 Football Commits

4 CBs committed. One is a 4*, but doesn’t have the offers to compete with UT. Why not kick the tires there, given Fickell’s ability to evaluate?
Click to expand...
1st 6 rounds is a very wide range.
 
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#361
#361
allvolrecruiting said:
1st 6 rounds is a very wide range.
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Is it? How many total guys get drafted out of the several thousand that play CFB? If you are getting drafted then you're an elite player. If you are getting noticed at Ouachita Baptist College... then you may very well be a remarkable player.

A much better gauge would be how those guys eventually perform in the NFL but I'm not sure anyone has produced that.
 
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#363
#363
sjt18 said:
Is it? How many total guys get drafted out of the several thousand that play CFB? If you are getting drafted then you're an elite player. If you are getting noticed at Ouachita Baptist College... then you may very well be a remarkable player.

A much better gauge would be how those guys eventually perform in the NFL but I'm not sure anyone has produced that.
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GregAmsler said:
They're NFL draft picks. I'll take a 6th round draft pick as my college CB.

But Cincinnati had a 1st and 4th rounder. I'd take that too.
Click to expand...
Yes it is a wide range. That's saying Jalen Ramsey coming out was on the same level as Theo Jackson coming out grouping that many rounds together
 
#364
#364
allvolrecruiting said:
Yes it is a wide range. That's saying Jalen Ramsey coming out was on the same level as Theo Jackson coming out grouping that many rounds together
Click to expand...

It also misses the point, which is, they’re good enough to play in the NFL, so they’re good enough to be very good CBs at Tennessee.
 
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#365
#365
allvolrecruiting said:
Yes it is a wide range. That's saying Jalen Ramsey coming out was on the same level as Theo Jackson coming out grouping that many rounds together
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No. It really isn't. The draft isn't an exact science either though probably closer than the recruiting rankings.

But perception and the marketing advantage of playing at a high profile program come into it as well. P-5 players are often drafted higher. It would be interesting to see an objective study of how they compare in NFL performance.. Just a real quick look at the top 3 WR's in the NFL last year showed 3 guys who did NOT play at P-5 schools. Two weren't even Div 1. I don't think any of them were drafted on the first day.
 
#366
#366
sjt18 said:
There are good reasons to question the staff. There are. They ran a good, well planned, legitimate competition for the QB position last year. They still selected the wrong guy to start the season. I think along with some talent/roster issues the playcalling and scheming on D deserve to be questioned.

Every coaching staff makes mistakes. They take the job and money knowing they'll work in a glass building in many ways. They cannot hide their results.

But there are people here who think their 247 account gives them direct access to UT's "board" or the minds of the coaches or what they're actually looking for in recruits. As much as some want to believe recruiting rankings are the final authority on everything... the grading of recruiting cannot really be evaluated by anything but wins and losses. I'm not claiming that the rankings are totally inaccurate or completely irrelevant... just that they aren't conclusive or the authority some do. We've seen NSD "winners" like Jones. I have a long history and have witnessed many 5* talents come and go at UT who never contributed very often because of character problems. If Heupel thinks his better risks are found in taking guys whose talent may not be as good or demonstrated in HS but will become a contributor at some level over highly talented guys that do no more on the field and create drama off it... then I'm really OK with trying that. We've tried the other and it didn't work.

We have some indications about what Heupel wants in recruits. He very much appears to value character and the quality of home a kid comes out of. He appears to favor smart kids- Sampson makes a good example. Both from "insider" reports and his actions... it appears he's passed on "blue chips" and pushed for lower rated guys without obvious reasons. In the end, this will either work out for him or it won't. He will win or he will lose.

So bottom line if you actually see something or have good sound reasoning to question a guy making $4 million per year... go for it. But coaches are ultimately judged on wins and losses.
Click to expand...
They started the QB that was better in fall camp and won the job. Joe unfortunately didn't take advantage of his fall camp then got injured. Hooker played better than his fall camp and kept the job. It happens alot in football. In CHRIST Alone
 
#367
#367
sjt18 said:
No. It really isn't. The draft isn't an exact science either though probably closer than the recruiting rankings.

But perception and the marketing advantage of playing at a high profile program come into it as well. P-5 players are often drafted higher. It would be interesting to see an objective study of how they compare in NFL performance.. Just a real quick look at the top 3 WR's in the NFL last year showed 3 guys who did NOT play at P-5 schools. Two weren't even Div 1. I don't think any of them were drafted on the first day.
Click to expand...
Who wasn't D1?
 
#369
#369
RAVOL said:
They started the QB that was better in fall camp and won the job. Joe unfortunately didn't take advantage of his fall camp then got injured. Hooker played better than his fall camp and kept the job. It happens alot in football. In CHRIST Alone
Click to expand...
I agree completely and give Heupel and crew a ton of credit. We just watched JG flounder for 4 years while two coaches refused to change because he was the best in practice. To their credit, they saw a guy who was not translating performance from practice to game and made a change.
 
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