All Time NBA Players Thread - No Jordan vs. Lebron Debate Allowed

#530
#530
KoachKrab127 said:
www.si.com

Data Reveals Bulls Might Have Padded Michael Jordan's Stats During DPOY Season

MJ is the only player in NBA history to win the Defensive Player of the Year award while leading the league in scoring in the same season. Was it legit?
www.si.com www.si.com

Interesting information here
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It's funny that I'd always heard the Stockton thing on his record APG season, but the disparity was only like 15% and people still knocked him. This is wild disparity and never heard mention of it
 
#532
#532
Fun fact:

Only two players have ever won a EuroLeague title, NBA Finals and Olympic gold medal.

Neither was European. Manu Ginobili and Bill Bradley
 
#533
#533
Gilbert Arenas takes his sights off the Euro players with his wild takes, and says he would've averaged 100 ppg in the 90's when the 3p line was pulled in.
 
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#536
#536
Certain guys are floor-raisers but not ceiling-raisers. A great example is Westbrook.

Some guys are ceiling-raisers but aren't really floor-raisers. Klay Thompson and Dennis Rodman are great examples.

Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell are playing MVP-quality basketball, but I don't want them on team USA and they rightly didn't make the team. Few guards are superstar floor-raisers and ceiling raisers. Devin Booker is one of them. I think that MJ and Klay are the only 2 guards I would take over Booker in building a superteam. Probably forgetting somebodies, but I do have him over Kobe.

I think the attributes that matter to making a superteam better are:

Shooting = A
Ballhandling = A-
Passing = B+
Team chemistry = A
High IQ = A
Defense = B-
Hustle = B+
Size = B

1721829728118.png
 
#537
#537
And for the **** of it:

MJ
Shooting = B+(but wasn't a reliable 3p shooter)
Ballhandling = A
Passing = B+
Team chemistry = B-
High IQ = A
Defense = A+
Hustle = A
Size = A

Klay
Shooting = A+
Ballhandling = C+
Passing = B-
Team chemistry = A
High IQ = A
Defense = A
Hustle = A
Size = A

Kobe
Shooting = B+ (but wasn't a reliable 3p shooter)
Ballhandling = A
Passing = B
Team chemistry = C
High IQ = A
Defense = A
Hustle = A
Size = A

DWade
Shooting = B- (wasn't a reliable 3p shooter)
Ballhandling = A
Passing = B
Team chemistry = B
High IQ = B+
Defense = A-
Hustle = A-
Size = A-

Ray Ray
Shooting = A+
Ballhandling = B
Passing = B-
Team chemistry = A-
High IQ = B+
Defense = B-
Hustle = B-
Size = A-
 
#538
#538
n_huffhines said:
Certain guys are floor-raisers but not ceiling-raisers. A great example is Westbrook.

Some guys are ceiling-raisers but aren't really floor-raisers. Klay Thompson and Dennis Rodman are great examples.

Jalen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell are playing MVP-quality basketball, but I don't want them on team USA and they rightly didn't make the team. Few guards are superstar floor-raisers and ceiling raisers. Devin Booker is one of them. I think that MJ and Klay are the only 2 guards I would take over Booker in building a superteam. Probably forgetting somebodies, but I do have him over Kobe.

I think the attributes that matter to making a superteam better are:

Shooting = A
Ballhandling = A-
Passing = B+
Team chemistry = A
High IQ = A
Defense = B-
Hustle = B+
Size = B

View attachment 661396
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You were forgetting Desmond Bane, the superheroes’ superhero.
 
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#539
#539
The Lebron hate really is something to behold. A 39 YO was the best player on team USA, he led us to gold in a competitive field, it was really fun to watch, and a huge portion of the internet is still desperately trying to have a go at him. Laughing emojis and hundreds of critical comments about an American player who only traveled because he was fouled first.

Screenshot_20240812-131352_Facebook.jpg
 
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#540
#540
n_huffhines said:
The Lebron hate really is something to behold. A 39 YO was the best player on team USA, he led us to gold in a competitive field, it was really fun to watch, and a huge portion of the internet is still desperately trying to have a go at him. Laughing emojis and hundreds of critical comments about an American player who only traveled because he was fouled first.

View attachment 666710
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The way fans my age (we’ll say around 35-50 years old) talk about LeBron and other players of today is so interesting to me, psychologically. My dad grew up loving Bill Russell and the Celtics, but he didn’t feel the need to constantly hate on Magic, Bird, and Jordan because they were a “threat” to Russell’s greatness. I don’t understand why people who were Jordan or Magic fans when they were kids feel like they have to hate LeBron or someone else, like KD, so much. I am a fan of all those players. I don’t care if someone thinks one of them is better than the other. Why do opinions about who’s better matter so much to some people? I mean, people get so angry about it. They can’t even enjoy watching the NBA anymore, because all they do is root for certain players to fail, not for their favorite team to succeed. It’s really quite sad.

Interestingly enough, former players (players who retired about 15-20 years ago) do this too. Former players constantly rip apart current players. Barkley, Shaq, and Kenny do it almost every night. It reeks of insecurity and pettiness. It really is a shame. I think the internet deserves a lot of blame, as message board comments hiding behind anonymity have gotten more and more hateful over the years.
 
#541
#541
KoachKrab127 said:
The way fans my age (we’ll say around 35-50 years old) talk about LeBron and other players of today is so interesting to me, psychologically. My dad grew up loving Bill Russell and the Celtics, but he didn’t feel the need to constantly hate on Magic, Bird, and Jordan because they were a “threat” to Russell’s greatness. I don’t understand why people who were Jordan or Magic fans when they were kids feel like they have to hate LeBron or someone else, like KD, so much. I am a fan of all those players. I don’t care if someone thinks one of them is better than the other. Why do opinions about who’s better matter so much to some people? I mean, people get so angry about it. They can’t even enjoy watching the NBA anymore, because all they do is root for certain players to fail, not for their favorite team to succeed. It’s really quite sad.

Interestingly enough, former players (players who retired about 15-20 years ago) do this too. Former players constantly rip apart current players. Barkley, Shaq, and Kenny do it almost every night. It reeks of insecurity and pettiness. It really is a shame. I think the internet deserves a lot of blame, as message board comments hiding behind anonymity have gotten more and more hateful over the years.
Click to expand...

Two things here are factors...the politics of Lebron are a turnoff for some people. The other factor is that MJ is just much more precious than anybody else and Lebron is a threat to MJ.

MJ was much bigger than the NBA. You didn't even need to watch the NBA and he could still be a big part of your childhood. I watched him on that Pro Stars cartoon. Everybody (except me) loved Space Jam. The first basketball video game I had was Jordan vs. Bird. He was the big trend-setter for hoops fashion. He hosted SNL. He was in a Michael Jackson music video. Everybody liked MJ, even people like me who were rooting for Barkley. It's just an incontrovertible truth from our childhood that MJ is the best basketball player and I don't watch basketball but I do dick around on the internet, so here's my comment.

I'll almost always have some allowance for bitter older players. Magic isn't bitter because he's rich as hell and has the crown as best PG. But imagine your Dr. J, you didn't get paid jack ****, and Lebron is a billionaire and so good in the present that nobody really talks about you anymore. No wonder he's a little bitter. And I don't get the Shaq bitterness at all. Shaq got paid. Nobody is putting Rudy anywhere near Shaq on the all-time list. What is his problem?
 
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#542
#542
n_huffhines said:
Two things here are factors...the politics of Lebron are a turnoff for some people. The other factor is that MJ is just much more precious than anybody else and Lebron is a threat to MJ.

MJ was much bigger than the NBA. You didn't even need to watch the NBA and he could still be a big part of your childhood. I watched him on that Pro Stars cartoon. Everybody (except me) loved Space Jam. The first basketball video game I had was Jordan vs. Bird. He was the big trend-setter for hoops fashion. He hosted SNL. He was in a Michael Jackson music video. Everybody liked MJ, even people like me who were rooting for Barkley. It's just an incontrovertible truth from our childhood that MJ is the best basketball player and I don't watch basketball but I do dick around on the internet, so here's my comment.

I'll almost always have some allowance for bitter older players. Magic isn't bitter because he's rich as hell and has the crown as best PG. But imagine your Dr. J, you didn't get paid jack ****, and Lebron is a billionaire and so good in the present that nobody really talks about you anymore. No wonder he's a little bitter. And I don't get the Shaq bitterness at all. Shaq got paid. Nobody is putting Rudy anywhere near Shaq on the all-time list. What is his problem?
Click to expand...
Jordan vs Bird was originally Dr. J vs. Bird and I used to play it on a Commodore 64 in like 1983. I always hated Bird, so I was the Dr. Now, 40 years later, I'm a bigger Bird fan than I am an Erving fan
 
#543
#543
The Dog said:
Jordan vs Bird was originally Dr. J vs. Bird and I used to play it on a Commodore 64 in like 1983. I always hated Bird, so I was the Dr. Now, 40 years later, I'm a bigger Bird fan than I am an Erving fan
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My next-door neighbor had that version, and I played it there.
 
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#544
#544
If Jordan hadn't have left to go play baseball as a hobby, he would've won 8 NBA titles in a row with the Bulls.
 
#545
#545
knoxvol52 said:
If Jordan hadn't have left to go play baseball as a hobby, he would've won 8 NBA titles in a row with the Bulls.
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It's most likely a no way in hell on that. It's too much of a grind. That's a big reason he quit. He was sick of basketball and everything that came with it after 3 straight finals and an olympics. Then he quit again after another 3 straight finals.

None of that is considering injuries he might sustain if he doesn't give his body a break, the fact that there was no Grant/Rodman on the '95 team, personnel decisions would be different in the alternate universes, etc. Maybe MJ decides to take the Knicks 1996 offer.
 
#546
#546
n_huffhines said:
Two things here are factors...the politics of Lebron are a turnoff for some people. The other factor is that MJ is just much more precious than anybody else and Lebron is a threat to MJ.

MJ was much bigger than the NBA. You didn't even need to watch the NBA and he could still be a big part of your childhood. I watched him on that Pro Stars cartoon. Everybody (except me) loved Space Jam. The first basketball video game I had was Jordan vs. Bird. He was the big trend-setter for hoops fashion. He hosted SNL. He was in a Michael Jackson music video. Everybody liked MJ, even people like me who were rooting for Barkley. It's just an incontrovertible truth from our childhood that MJ is the best basketball player and I don't watch basketball but I do dick around on the internet, so here's my comment.

I'll almost always have some allowance for bitter older players. Magic isn't bitter because he's rich as hell and has the crown as best PG. But imagine your Dr. J, you didn't get paid jack ****, and Lebron is a billionaire and so good in the present that nobody really talks about you anymore. No wonder he's a little bitter. And I don't get the Shaq bitterness at all. Shaq got paid. Nobody is putting Rudy anywhere near Shaq on the all-time list. What is his problem?
Click to expand...
Yup. His logo is on college football jerseys now
 
#547
#547
n_huffhines said:
Two things here are factors...the politics of Lebron are a turnoff for some people. The other factor is that MJ is just much more precious than anybody else and Lebron is a threat to MJ.

MJ was much bigger than the NBA. You didn't even need to watch the NBA and he could still be a big part of your childhood. I watched him on that Pro Stars cartoon. Everybody (except me) loved Space Jam. The first basketball video game I had was Jordan vs. Bird. He was the big trend-setter for hoops fashion. He hosted SNL. He was in a Michael Jackson music video. Everybody liked MJ, even people like me who were rooting for Barkley. It's just an incontrovertible truth from our childhood that MJ is the best basketball player and I don't watch basketball but I do dick around on the internet, so here's my comment.

I'll almost always have some allowance for bitter older players. Magic isn't bitter because he's rich as hell and has the crown as best PG. But imagine your Dr. J, you didn't get paid jack ****, and Lebron is a billionaire and so good in the present that nobody really talks about you anymore. No wonder he's a little bitter. And I don't get the Shaq bitterness at all. Shaq got paid. Nobody is putting Rudy anywhere near Shaq on the all-time list. What is his problem?
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you said. I also loved that cartoon with MJ, Bo Jackson, and Wayne Gretzke. I loved Space Jam as a kid. As an adult, I realize it’s an awful movie, but parts of it were funny, and I understand why kids did and still do love it. Jordan vs. Bird on the NES was also one of the first basketball games I played. The dunk contest was nearly impossible to get a respectable score. I remember the “Inside Stuff” episode when they talked about the Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan music video “Jam” behind the scenes. I loved all of it. Having said all that, and having a childhood that revolved around Jordan, I can appreciate that LeBron James is an amazing player as well. It’s almost like the NBA ruined itself by pushing Jordan so hard. Now no fan wants anyone to succeed as much as Jordan did. So many people my age talk about how they loved the NBA when they were kids, and now they hate it, because of LeBron…because of three pointers…because of rule changes…because they don’t play defense…I just think it’s really sad.

Shaq is petty because that’s just who he is. He was petty and sensitive as a player, and he still is. But it’s not just Shaq. It’s lots of players from the 90s and early 2000s who gripe about how much better they were than the league’s players today. Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Stephen Jackson, and Kenyon Martin to name a few are always bragging about how much better their era was. It just reeks on insecurity and pettiness. And like I said, it’s just sad.
 
#548
#548
Speak of the devil. Who knew Lebron and Marbury had beef. I guess Marbury's taken shots at Lebron a few times in recent years, including saying he's not a real Laker, he undermined his Kobe tribute, and he blamed him for Westbrook not working out...so gold medal game Lebron daps up Melo and ignores Marbury, and then Marbury goes on this bizarre rant on Twitter

FB_IMG_1723559092226.jpg
 
#549
#549
n_huffhines said:
Speak of the devil. Who knew Lebron and Marbury had beef. I guess Marbury's taken shots at Lebron a few times in recent years, including saying he's not a real Laker, he undermined his Kobe tribute, and he blamed him for Westbrook not working out...so gold medal game Lebron daps up Melo and ignores Marbury, and then Marbury goes on this bizarre rant on Twitter

View attachment 666860
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Just another example of a former player being petty for the sake of pettiness.

LeBron has led team USA to gold 3 times. Marbury led them to bronze when he had his sole chance.
 
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