an interesting read on the murfreesboro mosque

[onlyut4me]

this was written by a film maker that came to murfreesboro to do a documetary film on the mosque.
mosque

and another from the same author

 

[Burhead]

What am I supposed to feel after reading that?

 

[therealUT]

What am I supposed to feel after reading that?

The insane power of ignorance. This guy meets and interacts with the Muslims in Murfreesboro; he sees them as decent people; he sees the opposition as ignorant rubes; then, he watches TV and sees that brown skinned persons who are also Muslims, but live in Libya and Egypt, might not be the best people. From there, he goes against his own interactions with the Muslims he met in Murfreesboro and comes to the conclusion that those opposing the mosque are not wrong, they are just misguided in expressing their anti-Islam viewpoint.

 

[onlyut4me]

The insane power of ignorance. This guy meets and interacts with the Muslims in Murfreesboro; he sees them as decent people; he sees the opposition as ignorant rubes; then, he watches TV and sees that brown skinned persons who are also Muslims, but live in Libya and Egypt, might not be the best people. From there, he goes against his own interactions with the Muslims he met in Murfreesboro and comes to the conclusion that those opposing the mosque are not wrong, they are just misguided in expressing their anti-Islam viewpoint.

Maybe you should check into the background of the author and read more of his writings. Your condescending synopsis of the article showed ignorance at best.

 

[NEO]

Muslims....there nice people just like you and I...



and when they cut your head off


it's just their way of saying goodbye.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Maybe you should check into the background of the author and read more of his writings. Your condescending synopsis of the article showed ignorance at best.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[dukes_of_maggard]

Muslims....there nice people just like you and I...



and when they cut your head off


it's just their way of saying goodbye.

why is it that the dumbest among us have the most guns?

 

[CardsNVols]

I am in large part a very tolerant person, but how anyone who has actually studied Islam and knows everything that religion truly stands for can still support its rapid growth is beyond me.

 

[therealUT]

I am in large part a very tolerant person, but how anyone who has actually studied Islam and knows everything that religion truly stands for can still support its rapid growth is beyond me.

I take it that you have read the Qur'an from cover to cover?

 

[CardsNVols]

I take it that you have read the Qur'an from cover to cover?

The majority of it, yes. I actually did a neutral in-depth analysis of it for a college project.

It's broken down into two parts, so to speak. In the Meccan portions, you will find more peaceful and tolerant teachings. In the Medinian portions, which were written later chronologically, the imagery becomes quite a bit more colorful and less ideal for any sort of "peaceful" assumption.

When you look at much of the middle east, and you see the lack of what we consider basic human rights, such as no free speech, the lack of women's rights (to put it kindly), the countless murders and tortures of infidels, adulterers, gamblers, non followers, etc., and the will to expand a certain way of thinking by whatever means necessary, you are looking at countries who are literally living and being governed by Sharia Law, which is a vital part of the doctrine of Islam.

In many ways, Islam is much more than a religion. It's a way of thinking, even a form of government if you will. I do not hate Muslims in general. I don't wish for bad things to happen to them, nor will I pretend that they're all bad. As someone who is non-religious, I am also non-biased. However, I will openly admit that I have no desire to see that religion flourish throughout this country, and I honestly don't care how politically incorrect it makes me look.

 

[therealUT]

The majority of it, yes. I actually did a neutral in-depth analysis of it for a college project.

Read the entire thing before making the statement you made previously.

It's broken down into two parts, so to speak. In the Meccan portions, you will find more peaceful and tolerant teachings. In the Medinian portions, which were written later chronologically, the imagery becomes quite a bit more colorful and less ideal for any sort of "peaceful" assumption.

Only if one decides to take all the aggressive verses away from what directly precedes them: the oppression that is being forced on the believers by some of the disbelievers. The Qur'an is quite clear and explicit that one only fights disbelievers if the disbelievers are actively oppressing Muslims or if the disbelievers break a treaty.

When you look at much of the middle east, and you see the lack of what we consider basic human rights, such as no free speech, the lack of women's rights (to put it kindly), the countless murders and tortures of infidels, adulterers, gamblers, non followers, etc., and the will to expand a certain way of thinking by whatever means necessary, you are looking at countries who are literally living and being governed by Sharia Law, which is a vital part of the doctrine of Islam.

Great, would you consider Christianity to be completely flawed then until the middle of the 20th Century?

In many ways, Islam is much more than a religion. It's a way of thinking, even a form of government if you will. I do not hate Muslims in general. I don't wish for bad things to happen to them, nor will I pretend that they're all bad. As someone who is non-religious, I am also non-biased. However, I will openly admit that I have no desire to see that religion flourish throughout this country, and I honestly don't care how politically incorrect it makes me look.

The same things you are saying about Islam have been said by others, in other times about Christianity and Judaism (see Rousseau and Nietzsche, respectively).

 

[CardsNVols]

Read the entire thing before making the statement you made previously.

I've read enough of it, thanks.



Only if one decides to take all the aggressive verses away from what directly precedes them: the oppression that is being forced on the believers by some of the disbelievers. The Qur'an is quite clear and explicit that one only fights disbelievers if the disbelievers are actively oppressing Muslims or if the disbelievers break a treaty.

the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.




Great, would you consider Christianity to be completely flawed then until the middle of the 20th Century?

Generally speaking, I still consider Christianity to be completely flawed.



The same things you are saying about Islam have been said by others, in other times about Christianity and Judaism (see Rousseau and Nietzsche, respectively).

Not disagreeing. How many wars, and how many deaths over the centuries were a direct result of religion? Those religions don't experience as much anymore. Such isn't the case with Islam.

.

 

[therealUT]

I am in large part a very tolerant person, but how anyone who has actually studied Islam and knows everything that religion truly stands for can still support its rapid growth is beyond me.

Read the entire thing before making the statement you made previously.

I've read enough of it, thanks.

Ridiculous.

Not disagreeing. How many wars, and how many deaths over the centuries were a direct result of religion? Those religions don't experience as much anymore. Such isn't the case with Islam.

Christianity: begins roughly between 100-150 CE. Christianity experiences is most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1400-1700. For the most part, Christian brutality is tempered by the 20th Century, or around Christianity's 1,800th Birthday (figuratively speaking).

Islam: begins roughly around 600 CE; Islam experiences its most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1920-PRES, or around its 1,300th Birthday. Seems as though Islam is following roughly the same growth and struggle timeline of Christianity.

In the early years of Christianity (400-600 CE), Christian theologians relied heavily upon Greek and Roman intellectual texts (Plato, Cicero, etc.); great philosophic advances were made by Christian theologians and academics in this period. Then, there was large intellectual stagnation and regression in Christian Europe from about 800-1400 CE; the Renaissance brought intellectual flourishing back, however, the "Old Guard" felt incredibly threatened by science and reason. Thus, many intellectuals were persecuted in Christian nations.

In the early years of Islam (800-1200 CE), Islamic Jurists were often steeped in Aristotelian philosophy, the latest discoveries in mathematics, poetry, the arts, etc. Just like in Christianity, Islam experienced intellectual stagnation and regression. As many Muslims today embrace science, philosophy, music, the arts, more and more; the "Old Guard" is threatened and will use what powers it has to persecute those who they think are turning to heresy, blasphemy, and apostasy.

Having read the Qur'an, I find nothing which will keep the Middle East from experiencing, one day, its own enlightenment and seeing Islam turn the corner that many Christian sects turned.

Islam certainly is not going to go away anytime soon. Instead of casting Islam as the enemy, it would be much better to try to understand the conditions that keep the average Muslim in the Arab world shrouded by ignorance. Ignorant and desperate individuals are easy to exploit and mold to serve the interests of those in power. Those in power understand, and have always understood, that it is easy to exploit and mold religions in order to increase their own power and wealth.

 

[lawgator1]

More of this idiocy about Islam "flourishing" in the USA, and sharia law right around the corner.

Honestly, get a life.

 

[82_VOL_83]

why is it that the dumbest among us have the most guns?

To protect us from smart socialists like you and Peeeeelosi.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Ridiculous.



Christianity: begins roughly between 100-150 CE. Christianity experiences is most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1400-1700. For the most part, Christian brutality is tempered by the 20th Century, or around Christianity's 1,800th Birthday (figuratively speaking).

Islam: begins roughly around 600 CE; Islam experiences its most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1920-PRES, or around its 1,300th Birthday. Seems as though Islam is following roughly the same growth and struggle timeline of Christianity.

In the early years of Christianity (400-600 CE), Christian theologians relied heavily upon Greek and Roman intellectual texts (Plato, Cicero, etc.); great philosophic advances were made by Christian theologians and academics in this period. Then, there was large intellectual stagnation and regression in Christian Europe from about 800-1400 CE; the Renaissance brought intellectual flourishing back, however, the "Old Guard" felt incredibly threatened by science and reason. Thus, many intellectuals were persecuted in Christian nations.

In the early years of Islam (800-1200 CE), Islamic Jurists were often steeped in Aristotelian philosophy, the latest discoveries in mathematics, poetry, the arts, etc. Just like in Christianity, Islam experienced intellectual stagnation and regression. As many Muslims today embrace science, philosophy, music, the arts, more and more; the "Old Guard" is threatened and will use what powers it has to persecute those who they think are turning to heresy, blasphemy, and apostasy.

Having read the Qur'an, I find nothing which will keep the Middle East from experiencing, one day, its own enlightenment and seeing Islam turn the corner that many Christian sects turned.

Islam certainly is not going to go away anytime soon. Instead of casting Islam as the enemy, it would be much better to try to understand the conditions that keep the average Muslim in the Arab world shrouded by ignorance. Ignorant and desperate individuals are easy to exploit and mold to serve the interests of those in power. Those in power understand, and have always understood, that it is easy to exploit and mold religions in order to increase their own power and wealth.

Chritianity teaches "teach the unbeliever", Islam teaches "behead the unbeliever". Little bit of a difference there.

 

[CardsNVols]

Ridiculous.

Not ridiculous. I've read the vast majority of the Quran, and understood fully everything I read. I acknowledge that it taught many positive things, along with many things that I despise.



Christianity: begins roughly between 100-150 CE. Christianity experiences is most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1400-1700. For the most part, Christian brutality is tempered by the 20th Century, or around Christianity's 1,800th Birthday (figuratively speaking).

Islam: begins roughly around 600 CE; Islam experiences its most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1920-PRES, or around its 1,300th Birthday. Seems as though Islam is following roughly the same growth and struggle timeline of Christianity.

In the early years of Christianity (400-600 CE), Christian theologians relied heavily upon Greek and Roman intellectual texts (Plato, Cicero, etc.); great philosophic advances were made by Christian theologians and academics in this period. Then, there was large intellectual stagnation and regression in Christian Europe from about 800-1400 CE; the Renaissance brought intellectual flourishing back, however, the "Old Guard" felt incredibly threatened by science and reason. Thus, many intellectuals were persecuted in Christian nations.

In the early years of Islam (800-1200 CE), Islamic Jurists were often steeped in Aristotelian philosophy, the latest discoveries in mathematics, poetry, the arts, etc. Just like in Christianity, Islam experienced intellectual stagnation and regression. As many Muslims today embrace science, philosophy, music, the arts, more and more; the "Old Guard" is threatened and will use what powers it has to persecute those who they think are turning to heresy, blasphemy, and apostasy.

Having read the Qur'an, I find nothing which will keep the Middle East from experiencing, one day, its own enlightenment and seeing Islam turn the corner that many Christian sects turned.

The religion itself is the biggest reason the Middle East has yet to experience an enlightenment. And I saw nothing in the Quran that will lead them to any sort of Western-type enlightenment.

Islam certainly is not going to go away anytime soon. Instead of casting Islam as the enemy, it would be much better to try to understand the conditions that keep the average Muslim in the Arab world shrouded by ignorance. Ignorant and desperate individuals are easy to exploit and mold to serve the interests of those in power. Those in power understand, and have always understood, that it is easy to exploit and mold religions in order to increase their own power and wealth.

Right. As I said, the religion itself.

.

 

[therealUT]

Chritianity teaches "teach the unbeliever", Islam teaches "behead the unbeliever". Little bit of a difference there.

Interesting that I have never found such a teaching in the Qur'an. Moreover, it is interesting that many disbelievers were beheaded, burnt at the stake, and brutally tortured and killed by Christians simply for being disbelievers.

The actions of Muslims and Christians can, and should be, distinguished from what their sacred texts actually teach.

 

[therealUT]

.

Feel free to point out what it is you despise in the Qur'an, by Sura and verse.

 

[CardsNVols]

Feel free to point out what it is you despise in the Qur'an, by Sura and verse.

Do you want these one at a time, or all at once?

Quran (8:12)
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:29)
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30)
"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (17:16)
"And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

Quran (33:60-62)
"If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a fierce slaughter."

These are just a select few.

 

[Gramps]

Christianity: begins roughly between 100-150 CE. Christianity experiences is most brutal internecine and external conflict circa 1400-1700. For the most part, Christian brutality is tempered by the 20th Century, or around Christianity's 1,800th Birthday (figuratively speaking).

A Christian is someone who is a follower of Christ. The first use of the word "Christian" in the Bible is found in Acts 11:26, "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

Luke is believed to be the author of Acts and it is believed to be written around A.D. 62.

Christianity began with the disciples.

 

[rjd970]

Feel free to point out what it is you despise in the Qur'an, by Sura and verse.

Since you asked:

“It is the same whether or not you forewarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith” (2:6). “God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along” (2:15). A fire “whose fuel is men and stones” awaits them (2:24). They will be “rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection” (2:85). “God’s curse be upon the infidels!” (2:89). “They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]” (2:90). “God is the enemy of the unbelievers” (2:98). “The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord” (2:105). “They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter” (2:114). “Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost” (2:122). “[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate” (2:126). “The East and the West are God’s. He guides whom He will to a straight path” (2:142). “Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them” (2:154). “But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved” (2:162). “They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire” (2:168). “The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing” (2:172). “Theirs shall be a woeful punishment” (2:175). “How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism” (2:176). “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93). “Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not” (2:216). “They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God’s mercy” (2:217–18). “God does not guide the evil-doers” (2:258). “God does not guide the unbelievers” (2:264). “The evil-doers shall have none to help them” (2:270). “God gives guidance to whom He will” (2:272).

“Those that deny God’s revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge” (3:5). “As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God’s judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire” (3:10). “Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!’” (3:12). “The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God’s revelations should know that swift is God’s reckoning” (3:19). “Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense” (3:28). “Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal” (3:118). “If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy. We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels” (3:140). “Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. . . . We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home” (3:149–51). “Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.’ God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God’s forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass” (3:156). “Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God’s grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward” (3:169). “Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them” (3:178). “Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place” (3:195–96).

“God has cursed them in their unbelief” (4:46). “God will not forgive those who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in idols and false gods and say of the infidels: ‘These are better guided than the believers’” (4:50–51). “Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise” (4:55–56).

“Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime” (5:57). “That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection” (5:65). “God does not guide the unbelievers” (5:67). “That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers” (5:69). “You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . . You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians’” (5:80–82). “[T]hose that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell” (5:86).

“[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the consequences of their scorn” (6:5). “We had made them more powerful in the land than yourselves [the Meccans], sent down for them abundant water from the sky and gave them rivers that rolled at their feet. Yet because they sinned We destroyed them all and raised up other generations after them. If We sent down to you a Book inscribed on real parchment and they touched it with their own hands, the unbelievers would still assert: ‘This is but plain sorcery.’ They ask: ‘Why has no angel been sent down to him [Muhammad]?’ If We had sent down an angel, their fate would have been sealed and they would have never been reprieved” (6:5–8). “Who is more wicked than the man who invents falsehoods about God or denies His revelations?” (6:21). “Some of them listen to you. But We have cast veils over their hearts and made them hard of hearing lest they understand your words. They will believe in none of Our signs, even if they see them one and all. When they come to argue with you the unbelievers say: ‘This is nothing but old fictitious tales.’ They forbid it and depart from it. They ruin none but themselves, though they do not perceive it. If you could see them when they are set before the Fire! They will say: ‘Would that we could return! Then we would not deny the revelations of our Lord and would be true believers’ (6:23–27). “But if they were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. They are liars all” (6:29). “Had God pleased He would have given them guidance, one and all” (6:35). “Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He pleases.” (6:39) “[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe!” (6:43–45). “[T]hose that deny Our revelations shall be punished for their misdeeds” (6:49). “Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief” (6:70). “Could you but see the wrongdoers when death overwhelms them! With hands out-stretched, the angels will say: ‘Yield up your souls. You shall be rewarded with the scourge of shame this day, for you have said of God what is untrue and scorned His revelations” (6:93). “Avoid the pagans. Had God pleased, they would not have worshipped idols. . . . We will turn away their hearts and eyes from the Truth since they refused to believe in it at first. We will let them blunder about in their wrongdoing. If We sent the angels down to them, and caused the dead to speak to them, . . . and ranged all things in front of them, they would still not believe, unless God willed otherwise. . . . Thus have We assigned for every prophet an enemy: the devils among men and jinn, who inspire each other with vain and varnished false- hoods. But had your Lord pleased, they would not have done so. Therefore leave them to their own inventions, so that the hearts of those who have no faith in the life to come may be inclined to what they say and, being pleased, persist in their sinful ways” (6:107–12). “The devils will teach their votaries to argue with you. If you obey them you shall yourselves become idolaters. . . . God will humiliate the transgressors and mete out to them a grievous punishment for their scheming” (6:121–25). “If God wills to guide a man, He opens his bosom to Islam. But if he pleases to confound him, He makes his bosom small and narrow as though he were climbing up to heaven. Thus shall God lay the scourge on the unbelievers” (6:125).

Cue the same "out of context" baloney I get from Christians when I do the same thing with the Bible.

 

[CardsNVols]

Since you asked:



Cue the same "out of context" baloney I get from Christians when I do the same thing with the Bible.

Like clockwork.

 

[therealUT]

Now comes the fun part where I get to show your ass to you. Certainly, after providing the larger text in which these selections are cherry-picked from, you may still assert that you despise these teachings; however, a stating that God will brutally punish the disbelievers or that one may go to war and kill disbelievers who are oppressing and persecuting them is hardly anything novel in the field of religious texts. This simply places the Qur'an the level of the Old Testament and the Book of Revelations.

Let us get started:

Quran (8:12)
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

I am uncertain as to why you left off the first part of this verse? Did you do this on purpose or did the website you copied and pasted from leave this off, unbeknownst to you?

Your Lord revealed to the angels: "I am with you: give the believers firmness; I shall put fear into the hearts of the disbelievers -- strike above their necks and strike all their fingers." That was because they opposed God and His Messenger, and if anyone opposes God and His Messenger, God punishes them severely -- "The is what you get! Taste that! -- and the torment of Fire awaits the disbelievers.

How is this substantially different from the teachings of divine retribution found in the Old Testament and some of the things said about the fires of Gehenna found in the New Testament? If you think beheading is somehow more appalling than burning, then I have nothing with which to rebut; if you think they are on the level (both are gruesome ways to be killed/tortured), then there is only a distinction without a difference.

Quran (9:29)
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Again, what is left out is the guidance Mohammed provides to believers in fighting disbelievers that comes prior to that in the same Sura.

As for those idolaters who have honoured the treaty you made with them and who have not supported anyone against you: fulfil your agreement with them to the end of their term. God loves those who are mindful of him.

When the forbidden months are over, wherever you encounter these specific idolaters (ahdiya), kill them, seize them, besiege them, wait for them at every lookout post; but if they reprent, maintain the prayer, and pay the prescribed alms, let them go on their way, for God is most forgiving and merciful. If any on of the idolaters should seek your protection, grant it to him so that he may hear the word of God, then take him to a place safe for him, for they are people who do not know. How could there be a treaty with God and His Messengers for idolaters? -- But as for those with whom you made a treaty at the Sacred Mosque, so long as they remain true to you, be true to them; God loves those who are mindful of Him. -- How, when, if they were to get the upper hand over you, they would not respect any tie with you, of kinship or of treaty? They please you with their tongues, but their hearts are against you and most of them are lawbreakers. They have sold God's message for a trifling gain, nad barred others from His path. How evil their actions are! Where believers are concerned, they respect no tie of kinship or treaty. They are the ones who are committing aggression. If they repent, keep up the prayer, and pay the prescribed alms, then they are your brothers in faith: We make the message clear for people who understand. But if they break their oath after having made and agreement with you and revile your religion, then fight these leaders of disbelief - oaths mean nothing to them - so that they may stop. How could you not fight a people who have broken their oaths, who tried to drive the Messenger out, who attacked you first? Do you fear them? It is God you should fear if you are true believers. Fight them: God will punish them at your hands...

This continues, of course, for another twelve verses before arriving at the verses you quote. However, it is quite clear from what I have posted and from anyone who actually reads the entire content of the Repentance Sura (the 9th Sura) that Mohammed has defined disbelievers that must be fought as those who are not keeping the treaties and persecuting Muslims. That is a very significant and important clause; further, it makes sense when compared with what it is that Mohammed says with regard to evangelizing (that God causes the believers to believe and the disbelievers to disbelieve, so you cannot punish one simply for disbelieving as that is against God's will).

Quran (9:30)
"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

See above.

Quran (17:16)
"And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

You are joking with one, correct? Not only do you take this out of context but you remove it entirely from what Mohammed is trying to say: He is saying that just as We (the People of the Book, as he is building completely off of Old Testament conquests for about five Suras) do not destroy a town without first sending a messenger, so God will not destroy and/or punish a soul without first sending his word and guidance.

This Qur'an does show the straightest way. It gives the faithful who do right the good news that they will have a great reward and warns that We have prepared an agonizing torment for those who do not believe in the world to come. Yet man prays for harm, just as he prays for good: man is ever hasty. We made the night and the day as two signs, then darkened the night and made the daylight for seeing, for you to seek your Lord's bounty and to know how to count the years and calculate. We have explained everything in detail. We have bound each human being's destiny to his neck. On the Day of Resurrection, We shall bring out a record for each of them, which they will find spread wide open, "Read your record. Today your own soul is enough to calculate your account."

Whoever accepts guidance does so for his own good; whoever strays does so at his own peril. No soul will bear another's burden, nor do We punish until we have sent a messenger. When we decide to destroy a town, We command those corrupted by wealth to reform, but they persist in their disobedience; Our sentence is passed, and We destroy them utterly.

Mohammed goes on to say, in verse 25:

Your Lord knows best what is in your heart. If you are good, He is most forgiving to those who return to Him.

If Mohammed is in any manner directing believers to kill disbelievers simply for disbelieving, then he is rendering null the "most forgiving" aspect of God. That is absurd.

Quran (33:60-62)
"If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a fierce slaughter."

A terrible translation, however, why does this bother you? Sura 33 lays out laws for believers, i.e. those who consent to be bound by Mohammed's teachings. This is hardly an outrageous verse: when compared to the edicts for believers in almost every major religious text (Christianity excluded; although Christian slaughtered many apostates, heretics, blasphemers, and "those who spread lies" over the course of Christian history). In fact, even non-religious texts in which social rules were implemented basically said that the society decides the laws and those who consent are bound, even if that means they can be put to death for trivial matters.

Whoever wishes to preserve his own life at the expense of others must give his life for them when it is necessary. Now, as citizen, no man is judge any longer of the danger to which the law requires him to expose himself, and when the prince says to him: "It is expedient for the state that you should die," then he should die, because it is only on such terms that he has lived in security as long as he has and also because his life is no longer the bounty of nature but a gift he has received conditionally from the state.

The Social Contract
J.J. Rousseau

You may have written a college paper on the Qur'an; however, your understanding of the Qur'an is far from complete. The fact that you picked out these verses to "prove" your point actually makes me feel sorry for you as you either do not understand who to comprehend what you read or you have simply been duped by websites and books that purport to tell you all about the Qur'an and why it is so evil.

 

[therealUT]

Since you asked:



Cue the same "out of context" baloney I get from Christians when I do the same thing with the Bible.

You have taken it completely out of context. I will also admit that there are Muslims who take these verses out of context (just as there are Christians who take verses of the bible out of context). However, there are plenty of Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, who continually study the Qur'an and there is a long history of Islamic Jurists trying to interpret what exactly is being said, throughout the Qur'an. For the majority of Muslims, these verses do not authorize violence against disbelievers.