an interesting read on the murfreesboro mosque

#26
#26
therealUT said:
You have taken it completely out of context. I will also admit that there are Muslims who take these verses out of context (just as there are Christians who take verses of the bible out of context). However, there are plenty of Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, who continually study the Qur'an and there is a long history of Islamic Jurists trying to interpret what exactly is being said, throughout the Qur'an. For the majority of Muslims, these verses do not authorize violence against disbelievers.
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And there you have it.

Who's context? What interpretation? Who is right? Who is wrong? How do we know the moderate "vast majority" who say that these versus do not authorize violence are not the ones taking it out of context?

The only thing we have to go by is the plain words in front of our face, in black and white. So there you have it, above, with all the versus that are troublesome, to say the least.

And the comparison to the Bible is completely valid, and proper. Just like with Islam, people are going to use "context" and "interpretation" and "Scholars" (which is an insult to the word) to somehow justify it.

I'm sorry, but this context crap religion peddles is bogus. All it does it allow an excuse to change beliefs based on changing societal values and common sense, and if we squint hard enough it can say what we think it currently should.
 
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#27
#27
rjd970 said:
And there you have it.

Who's context? What interpretation? Who is right? Who is wrong? How do we know the moderate "vast majority" who say that these versus do not authorize violence are not the ones taking it out of context?
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Of course, you could say that the vast majority are the ones who are taking these verses out of context; of course, then you have to account for why the author of the text would absolutely contradict himself over the course of twenty verses. Sure, that is possible, though.

However, if you want to make the claim that the author was not intending to contradict himself, then you can easily see that he separates those who merely disbelieve from those who disbelieve and oppress/persecute/break treaties.

rjd970 said:
The only thing we have to go by is the plain words in front of our face, in black and white. So there you have it, above, with all the versus that are troublesome, to say the least.
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Feel free to read the Qur'an in its entirety. Once you have done so, you can speak on how it struck you.

rjd970 said:
I'm sorry, but this context crap religion peddles is bogus. All it does it allow an excuse to change beliefs based on changing societal values and common sense, and if we squint hard enough it can say what we think it currently should.
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Religion is certainly not the only discipline that instructs individuals to read things in context and to comprehend the whole. In fact, I would imagine that when you read anything other than a bulleted outline, you are comprehending what is being said via the context in which it is said.

Maybe this is why you like science because formulas are laid out quite clearly and one must not worry so much about context.
 
#28
#28
What's this silliness about reading seething in its entirety to be able to speak about it intelligently?

You haven't read all of Einstein, but can still discuss relativity. What gives?
 
#29
#29
BigPapaVol said:
What's this silliness about reading seething in its entirety to be able to speak about it intelligently?
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Hope you live through this stroke.

BigPapaVol said:
You haven't read all of Einstein, but can still discuss relativity. What gives?
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When someone makes the following statement: "I am in large part a very tolerant person, but how anyone who has actually studied Islam and knows everything that religion truly stands for can still support its rapid growth is beyond me," I think it is germane to ask them if they have at least read the entire Qur'an (if not also every single Haditha) to support their claim that they know everything that the religion stands for.

Also, it is clear from the verses he referred to that he has little to no grasp on the Qur'an.
 
#32
#32
To me it's pretty simple... we have this thing called the 1st Amendment that protects the free practice of Religion. Whether you like or hate the religion doesn't matter, they have a right to build a church on their private property. To me this is akin to a Baptist Church being forbidden. If they use the place as a hotbed for illegal activity then you can investigate, but only after proper cause.

Do I buy the bullcrap that Islam is a peaceful religion... let's just say I'm a heavy skeptic. But I'm not going to piss all over my constitution because I have misgivings about someone, because what goes around will definitely come right back around.
 
#33
#33
OrangeYankee said:
To me it's pretty simple... we have this thing called the 1st Amendment that protects the free practice of Religion. Whether you like or hate the religion doesn't matter, they have a right to build a church on their private property. To me this is akin to a Baptist Church being forbidden. If they use the place as a hotbed for illegal activity then you can investigate, but only after proper cause.

Do I buy the bullcrap that Islam is a peaceful religion... let's just say I'm a heavy skeptic. But I'm not going to piss all over my constitution because I have misgivings about someone, because what goes around will definitely come right back around.
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well Said.
 
#34
#34
I tend to want to agree with Yankee Vol. HOWEVER, the function of the constitution has turned from the four-wheeled cart upon which our country rode in a cautious manner to a blown 454 with slicks on the back driven by whatever maniac is in charge. Look at how the gov uses the commerce clause now - and now it has an upsized taxing authority. De Toqueville stated that a Democracy will eventually vote itself into a dictatorship - and I believe we are seeing this take place before our very eyes.
 
#35
#35
We really are heading in that direction... soooo since we are going to pot we just turn our back and do the same thing and bend the constitution to work in our favor as well?

That was kind of my point (If I'm reading yours right) is the fact that I believe so firmly that we have GOT to take that piece of paper so seriously we have to apply it across the board to ALL the citizens of this country regardless of whether we agree or disagree or like or dislike. No exceptions, No questions, and (in my opinion) as exactly as it is written. If the wording is not in there, then it's up to the people to push for an amendment. The moment it became a "living" document was the moment this country started to die.
 
#36
#36
TRUT how bout you head on over to IRAN and start preaching about JESUS in the streets during noon. Tell me how it goes.
 
#37
#37
Or talk about freedom of women while there too.

See how that goes.

They're just cute friendly people after all.
 
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