And we wonder why the deep south is perceived as uneducated, unenlightened

#27
#27
nbakerld said:
I actually hate the pledge of allegiance. It's complete brainwashing. It was written by an avowed socialist in the early 20th century to create nationalist sentiment. Originally you were to put your hand over your heart and then move your hand out very similar to the nazi salute which we all equate with blind and dangerous nationalism.

The part I take exception with and why I think it's brainwashing is the line "...one nation under God, indivisible..." These words were inserted to phase out "state's rights" mentality and the notion that the US is a federation of independent nation/states. Lo and behold, 100 years later the idea of 50 separate nation/states sounds absurd and people probably don't even know that's how it was ever viewed.

Don't think me some patriot-hater. I love me some "Star Spangled Banner". I just don't like the politics of the pledge.
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The writer of the Pledge was dead before Nazis took power. The party, itself, was only about 10 years old at this time. In no way was his original pledge an homage to the nazi salute. If anything, it'd probably have to be Roman or something, right?

He wrote it prior to the turn of the 20th century. It was changed little by little throughout, but

Also, it is one nation, indivisible. Don't you remember what happened in the 19th century? We are one nation made up of states. If you want states with full autonomy, you won't find it here and haven't since the turn of the 19th century. The Civil War proved that we are no divisible country. If you have a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you. You might not like it, but states are not autonomous beings. We have all rights not given to the federal government, but are a union not a confederation.


I make my kids stand for the pledge. You can choose not to say it, but you'll stand. Your education is paid for by our county and state, which are part of the Union. While you benefit from it, you'll show a little respect for it.
 
#28
#28
jwells said:
The writer of the Pledge was dead before Nazis took power. The party, itself, was only about 10 years old at this time. In no way was his original pledge an homage to the nazi salute. If anything, it'd probably have to be Roman or something, right?

He wrote it prior to the turn of the 20th century. It was changed little by little throughout, but

Also, it is one nation, indivisible. Don't you remember what happened in the 19th century? We are one nation made up of states. If you want states with full autonomy, you won't find it here and haven't since the turn of the 19th century. The Civil War proved that we are no divisible country. If you have a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you. You might not like it, but states are not autonomous beings. We have all rights not given to the federal government, but are a union not a confederation.

I make my kids stand for the pledge. You can choose not to say it, but you'll stand. Your education is paid for by our county and state, which are part of the Union. While you benefit from it, you'll show a little respect for it.
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I didn't say he copied the motion from the Nazis. We actually got rid of it because it resembled the Nazis. It's just shocking to make the connection to that kind of nationalism. I had my date a little bit off by saying early 20th century, but the point remains the same.

The Civil War proved we are not a divisible country? So 650,000 people dying (50,000 southern civilians) proved that it isn't divisible? That's like saying a bully proved to your kid the sky was green by beating him senseless.

The constitution does say all rights not delegated to the federal government are to remain with states, but that's not reality. That 19th century event you mentioned took care of that. The supreme court recently ruled that in my current state (Utah) we cannot put crosses on the side of the road where Highway Patrolmen died. Pretty sure the constitution doesn't give federal government power to do that. Secession is not mentioned in the constitution which means that it's up to the states.

What is the difference between a union and a confederation? European "Union" is a confederation.
 
#29
#29
VolGal423 said:
Wow, you were so specific. How'd you know? :p
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Public school, where indoctrination happens. :wink2: I'm sure you are a great teacher, but coercing students to pledge allegiance (which are very serious words, and they probably don't understand them) is indoctrination. My point is the same point Disraeli discovered...totalitarian regimes spend significantly more money on education than free countries.
 
#32
#32
Finally get a chance to agree with LG. Like nbakerld, I am not in love with the concept of forcing Americans to pledge allegiance to anything... and certainly not a flag.
 
#33
#33
Rasputin_Vol said:
LG, where is your "This is why California is perceived to be a state full of fruits, nuts and flakes" after the California activist judge disregarded Federal law concerning Don't ask/Don't tell?
:zeitung_lesen:
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activist: a judge who makes rulings one finds to be disagreeable.
 
#34
#34
IPorange said:
activist: a judge who makes rulings one finds to be disagreeable.
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Well, I think the literal meaning of "activist" judge is one that uses the judicial process to usurp the legislative. And I only mention this because I think this is lost on a lot of people, not you in particular.

Pretty much every supreme court justice for at least the last 100 years is an activist.
 
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#35
#35
nbakerld said:
Well, I think the literal meaning of "activist" judge is one that uses the judicial process to usurp the legislative. And I only mention this because I think this is lost on a lot of people, not you in particular.

Pretty much every supreme court justice for at least the last 100 years is an activist.
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Hence the gradual slide to socialism.
 
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