Angel Reese or Caitlin Clark is GOAT…and Sakerlina Banner!

#28
#28
Coach Jumper said:
Agree,,,these playoffs are reminisant of the 70s-80's NBA playoffs with
Individual stars: Michael, Larry, Magic
Individual team connections: Utah Jazz (Malone-stockton), (MJ, Scottie), (KJ-K Duckworth)
Physical teams: The Detroit Bad Boys, NY Knicks CHarles Oakley, etc

I have enjoyed these playoffs more than any other before them


Thug has become a racist word to most, but to me it is in its noun definition:
a person who habitually seeks to harm or intimidate those whom they perceive as vulnerable.
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Please stop comparing women players to men.
 
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#32
#32
madtownvol said:
Its Tina Charles who just set the mark this season. It was all over ESPN sportcenter.

But, your point is irrelevant. Why compare Clark and Reese at all? They play different positions and do different things. By analogies, QBs get more attention and sell more tickets than lineman but you still need the latter to have a competitive team.

It is only because of Culture BS that people feel that it is so important to argue that "Clark" is better, more important than Reese rather than just acknowledging that both are good players.

Sure, Clark is the bigger box office draw but she, if she wants to win championships, she needs some workhorse players around. Heck, the Fever could use a relentless energizing bunny player like Reese.
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I read a stat that 40% of Angels rebounds are from her missed shots at point blank range. Her shooting percentage is miserable. Clark needs more players who can fast break and screen in the half court game.
 
#34
#34
VOLtaism said:
I read a stat that 40% of Angels rebounds are from her missed shots at point blank range. Her shooting percentage is miserable. Clark needs more players who can fast break and screen in the half court game.
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Well, you read a very incorrect stat. Toward the end of the season, people were running numbers on this. Reese had two games to play and had 53 own rebounds out of her then total of 374 or 15% (she finished the season with a WNBA record of 418 rebounds).

Her overall shooting % was 40%. Is that perhaps the stat you are remembering?

But in regard to self rebounds, guess what? Reese's % is lower than many elite male post players, which are named Z-bounds after Zach Randolph.

Nikola Jokic has rebounded 19.4% of his own misses ("Z-bounds" - named after Zach Randolph, the career leader in Z-bounds) this year. That's the 4th highest rate among players who have played 800+ minutes.

  1. Capela, 25.9%
  2. Gobert, 22.0%
  3. Zubac, 20.5%
  4. Jokic, 19.4%
  5. Gordon, 18.8%
That would be a career high for Jokic, who set his career high last year at 16.7%.

Jokic has already rebounded 50 of his own misses. He led the NBA last year with 53. This is the 4th consecutive season he's leading the league in Z-bounds.
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#35
#35
madtownvol said:
Well, you read a very incorrect stat. Toward the end of the season, people were running numbers on this. Reese had two games to play and had 53 own rebounds out of her then total of 374 or 15% (she finished the season with a WNBA record of 418 rebounds).

Her overall shooting % was 40%. Is that perhaps the stat you are remembering?

But in regard to self rebounds, guess what? Reese's % is lower than many elite male post players, which are named Z-bounds after Zach Randolph.
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she found her inner dennis rodman...found her niche

now to see which rook improves the most
Reese has the most room here bc she is IMHO the least skilled in "variety"
Clark and Kia have a broader skillset so their improvement at this stage will be consistency in performance
 
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#38
#38
madtownvol said:
Ironic how part of her "juvenile" behavior is complaining about social media haters who sexualize and demean her with obscene epithets........
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Exactly. The girl is as immature and silly as she can be, but someone being immature and silly is NOT permission to be demeaned like that. Good grief. 😡
 
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#39
#39
Coach Jumper said:
she found her inner dennis rodman...found her niche

now to see which rook improves the most
Reese has the most room here bc she is IMHO the least skilled in "variety"
Clark and Kia have a broader skillset so their improvement at this stage will be consistency in performance
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Reese is very skilled, but I will say she has bad mechanics on her shots, yes that could be switching shooting hands, but it’s actually be there since high school. None of the coaches helped her fix it since she was successful, even though the coaches would mention it, total coaching malpractice. If they fix the mechanics I think she’ll be fine, along with getting her a position and stchking with it, she’s played 3 different positions in the last 4 years.
 
#40
#40
DarkPhoenix said:
None of the coaches helped her fix it since she was successful, even though the coaches would mention it, total coaching malpractice. If they fix the mechanics I think she’ll be fine
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Do you really think every coach Angel has ever had would just blow off fixing her mechanics? Everyone and thier Granny knows it's what stands btw her and offensive success. I don't believe it's for lack of trying on their part or hers. Since she posts every instant of her busy life on the internet, she's posted herself working on it alot over the years.

I believe at her age it's just unlikely to get completely "fixed". Not sure basic mechanics can be learned and unlearned at that point. Maybe Angel will prove that wrong, we'll see. It's going to be interesting to see how all the rookies do their second year. It will be like a rookie pitcher going thru the batting order a second time.
 
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#41
#41
glv98 said:
Do you really think every coach Angel has ever had would just blow off fixing her mechanics? Everyone and thier Granny knows it's what stands btw her and offensive success. I don't believe it's for lack of trying on their part or hers. Since she posts every instant of her busy life on the internet, she's posted herself working on it alot over the years.

I believe at her age it's just unlikely to get completely "fixed". Not sure basic mechanics can be learned and unlearned at that point. Maybe Angel will prove that wrong, we'll see. It's going to be interesting to see how all the rookies do their second year. It will be like a rookie pitcher going thru the batting order a second time.
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Yes they all have, I’ve watched her since high school, the reason it will be easy is because she hasn’t shot left handed her whole life, and the mechanics on her jump shot got better since coming into the league, the other mechanics are easy to fix if addressed. I know exactly what needs to change and it’s not hard to fix, it all depends on if they address it or not. They usually just do drills by passing her the ball and she makes the shots but with the same mechanics, I’m talking about her college career, and I would complain while watching it in real time, her coaches failed her because she was dominant anyway and still winning Championships.
 
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#42
#42
DarkPhoenix said:
Yes they all have, I’ve watched her since high school, the reason it will be easy is because she hasn’t shot left handed her whole life, and the mechanics on her jump shot got better since coming into the league, the other mechanics are easy to fix if addressed. I know exactly what needs to change and it’s not hard to fix, it all depends on if they address it or not. They usually just do drills by passing her the ball and she makes the shots but with the same mechanics, I’m talking about her college career, and I would complain while watching it in real time, her coaches failed her because she was dominant anyway and still winning Championships.
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Sounding like Coach J here. You and you alone huh? If you had just shared your secret w TSpoon maybe she'd still have a job.
 
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#43
#43
glv98 said:
Sounding like Coach J here. You and you alone huh? If you had just shared your secret w TSpoon maybe she'd still have a job.
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Not a coach but I’ve watched her for years, even practice videos where they did nothing. Even when she asked Dwade and Sheryl Swoopes on how she could improve in her podcast, 2 of the greatest to ever play, neither of them mentioned her mechanics, I was actually waiting for that answer. I’ll use myself as an example, I use to use my thumb on my off hand when shooting, it took an AAU coach to see it one day by accident to let me know, none of my previous coaches even knew and I didn’t know it was bad mechanics because I was successful and did t think their was a problem. Players just do what working but a coach is someone that needs to see the flaws and tell u. I don’t just watch the games, I’ve watched her very closely in practice to see if they would address it, only when she got to the Sky did I see them working on her mechanics of her jump shot, that should be easy since it’s still in the early stages of her left handed shooting. Now for the mechanics on her layups it’s an easy fix, since she finally struggled with it, I’m hoping they fix it and she’ll be even better.
 
#44
#44
glv98 said:
Do you really think every coach Angel has ever had would just blow off fixing her mechanics? Everyone and thier Granny knows it's what stands btw her and offensive success. I don't believe it's for lack of trying on their part or hers. Since she posts every instant of her busy life on the internet, she's posted herself working on it alot over the years.

I believe at her age it's just unlikely to get completely "fixed". Not sure basic mechanics can be learned and unlearned at that point. Maybe Angel will prove that wrong, we'll see. It's going to be interesting to see how all the rookies do their second year. It will be like a rookie pitcher going thru the batting order a second time.
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Angel is WAY more athletic and not mechanical at all, but this reminds me of Nicky Anosike. Big Nick's primary weapon was her sheer determination and physical strength, 'cause she had the most hard-to-watch shooting mechanics I ever saw on a D1 post. you remember that? She was more often than not robotic under the basket, looking like she was pausing to think about it in increments. It drove me nuts for years, and I said then what you are saying now about Reese: It was too late to change Anosike. If she coukd have been reprogrammed, Pat and her staff would have. Some players are just going to always revert to their basic instincts.
 
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#45
#45
DarkPhoenix said:
Yes they all have, I’ve watched her since high school, the reason it will be easy is because she hasn’t shot left handed her whole life, and the mechanics on her jump shot got better since coming into the league, the other mechanics are easy to fix if addressed. I know exactly what needs to change and it’s not hard to fix, it all depends on if they address it or not. They usually just do drills by passing her the ball and she makes the shots but with the same mechanics, I’m talking about her college career, and I would complain while watching it in real time, her coaches failed her because she was dominant anyway and still winning Championships.
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Kim Mulkey made this a point of emphasis following Angel's junior season (and was quoted saying as much) and instead of coming into her senior season in basketball shape, where she should have appeared to have improved, she was was in horrible shape. Had Smith not gone down with an injury, I believe Angel would have been exited right along with Kateri Poole rather than benched and suspended.

She also looked out of shape at the America's cup, a tournament that was featuring her and failed to make even the all tournament team. You can drag a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink. Angel needs to fix what's above her shoulders and then maybe the rest of her game would evolve. She has all the physical tools, but unfortunately, many who have the great physical tools never achieve greatness because they depend on their physicality and never really hone their game. She has had elite basketball coaches available to her and she isn't improving. That's not on the coaches, that is on the player.
 
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#46
#46
Yes Angel Reese won a National Championship at LSU but let's not act like she did it by herself. There was plenty of talented players surrounding her in that Championship year.

In my 53 years on earth I've only viewed 3 players take a team of nothing but role players and win National Championship.

1. Sheryll Swoopes
2. Danny Manning
3. Kemba Walker

Katie Smith of Ohio State could be on this list but She lost to Swoopes in Title game.

Edit: add a 4th one I forgot and just remembered.

Holdsclaw and the role players from the 1996-97 National Championship winning Lady Vols.
 
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#47
#47
DarkPhoenix said:
Reese is very skilled, but I will say she has bad mechanics on her shots, yes that could be switching shooting hands, but it’s actually be there since high school. None of the coaches helped her fix it since she was successful, . .
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There are BB coaches who fixate on one or two things and never truly learn the others. they get stuck with the old lessons they learned and don't learn the new approach.

Take BEEF shooting (Balance, The B is for balance, E is for eyes, the second E is for elbows, and F is for follow-through)...What if you are moving or in the air?....the B is already jeopardized...what if BEEF is all you know....On a set-shot BEEF works, but on a moving shot it is the "elbow-hip-toe" that has to line up

Reese gets what she gets due to hard work and playing angles,,,her shooting and layup needs work. I cringed everytime Jonquell Jones touched the ball deep,,,it ALWAYS came down before it went u p...Horrible mechanics,,,yet still she has them.
 
#48
#48
knoxvol52 said:
Yes Angel Reese won a National Championship at LSU but let's not act like she did it by herself. There was plenty of talented players surrounding her in that Championship year.

In my 53 years on earth I've only viewed 3 players take a team of nothing but role players and win National Championship.

1. Sheryll Swoopes
2. Danny Manning
3. Kemba Walker

Katie Smith of Ohio State could be on this list but She lost to Swoopes in Title game.

Edit: add a 4th one I forgot and just remembered.

Holdsclaw and the role players from the 1996-97 National Championship winning Lady Vols.
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Reese carried them, yes during the Championship game players stepped up after the refs tried to foul her out. But she had a historic NCAA tournament. Reese inspired her teammates all season for those moments. How many people on here thought LSU would win the Championship at the start of the season?
 
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#49
#49
DarkPhoenix said:
Reese carried them, yes during the Championship game players stepped up after the refs tried to foul her out. But she had a historic NCAA tournament. Reese inspired her teammates all season for those moments. How many people on here thought LSU would win the Championship at the start of the season?
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You see it your way, I know what I viewed but I understand you're a big Angel Reese fan and there's nothing wrong with that.

Agree to disagree.
 
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