Another bad apple (George Floyd case)

#3,127
#3,127
mr.checkerboards said:
Now they have to prove intent. Not saying they can't but this just got a lot harder for the prosecution
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I just read an article that states that Minnesota law - 2nd degree murder:

There are two types of second degree murder: intentional/drive-by shooting and unintentional. The maximum sentence for second degree murder is less than 40 years in prison. Intentional second degree murder is intentional murder without premeditation. Second degree murder by drive-by shooting is exactly as it sounds so long as the drive-by shooting is what is defined by statute section 609.66, subdiv. 1(e). The statute for unintentional second degree murder lists two ways that this offense is committed: unintentional killing while committing or trying to commit certain felonies and certain acts in violation of an order for protection.

So are they saying that the officer committed a felony agg assault? because the arrest itself was legal, i don't know of any other felonies that might apply here
 
#3,128
#3,128
Rickyvol77 said:
I just read an article that states that Minnesota law - 2nd degree murder:

There are two types of second degree murder: intentional/drive-by shooting and unintentional. The maximum sentence for second degree murder is less than 40 years in prison. Intentional second degree murder is intentional murder without premeditation. Second degree murder by drive-by shooting is exactly as it sounds so long as the drive-by shooting is what is defined by statute section 609.66, subdiv. 1(e). The statute for unintentional second degree murder lists two ways that this offense is committed: unintentional killing while committing or trying to commit certain felonies and certain acts in violation of an order for protection.

So are they saying that the officer committed a felony agg assault? because the arrest itself was legal, i don't know of any other felonies that might apply here
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I'm super confused as well. Im wondering if since the two men knew each other they've found something that proves intent. Only thing that would make sense to me. Or since the restraint he used wasn't by the book they're calling that agg assault?
Or more weak democratic liberal leaders giving into the mob
 
#3,129
#3,129
George Floyd death: Experts say knee-to-neck restraint is dangerous, but Minneapolis allows it

Another fly in the ointment for prosecutors, the Minneapolis PD STILL teaches using the neck restraint in their training manual.

5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)
 
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#3,130
#3,130
Rickyvol77 said:
George Floyd death: Experts say knee-to-neck restraint is dangerous, but Minneapolis allows it

Another fly in the ointment for prosecutors, the Minneapolis PD STILL teaches using the neck restraint in their training manual.

5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)
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I wonder how that would play into a ruling. If he received that training he's following established procedures the police department trains their officers to use.

How much blame could that shift from him to the Minneapolis PD?
 
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#3,131
#3,131
TheDeeble said:
I wonder how that would play into a ruling. If he received that training he's following established procedures the police department trains their officers to use.

How much blame could that shift from him to the Minneapolis PD?
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Perhaps the key variable would be something along the lines of "excessive". Something can be considered lawful and legitimate in and of itself but not beyond a certain point.
 
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#3,132
#3,132
TheDeeble said:
I wonder how that would play into a ruling. If he received that training he's following established procedures the police department trains their officers to use.

How much blame could that shift from him to the Minneapolis PD?
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I know that here in Florida, John Morgan would invite everybody to the party. IANAL, but the MPD could possibly have a bit of contributory negligence in failing to train him properly.
 
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#3,133
#3,133
hndog609 said:
Perhaps the key variable would be something along the lines of "excessive". Something can be considered lawful and legitimate in and of itself but not beyond a certain point.
Click to expand...
I'm not thinking he'd be found innocent. But if they have procedures in line to render someone unconscious, that's a thin line they're teaching officers to navigate. How much practice and recurrency training is required for something like that.

"Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12) "
 
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#3,135
#3,135
mr.checkerboards said:
Now they have to prove intent. Not saying they can't but this just got a lot harder for the prosecution
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If you're doing a thing and people are yelling at you that "you're killing him" and you continue to do that thing is it possible that you meant to do that thing?
 
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#3,136
#3,136
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Is a knee to the back of the neck SOP? I can’t imagine it is. And the other cop is just pretending nothings wrong. **** those guys.
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It was an equally serious travestation for the DA to not bring charges against the 4 cops. Fortunately the case was bumped by the Governor to the State AG
 
#3,137
#3,137
Rickyvol77 said:
I just read an article that states that Minnesota law - 2nd degree murder:

There are two types of second degree murder: intentional/drive-by shooting and unintentional. The maximum sentence for second degree murder is less than 40 years in prison. Intentional second degree murder is intentional murder without premeditation. Second degree murder by drive-by shooting is exactly as it sounds so long as the drive-by shooting is what is defined by statute section 609.66, subdiv. 1(e). The statute for unintentional second degree murder lists two ways that this offense is committed: unintentional killing while committing or trying to commit certain felonies and certain acts in violation of an order for protection.

So are they saying that the officer committed a felony agg assault? because the arrest itself was legal, i don't know of any other felonies that might apply here
Click to expand...
This way we can have more riots next year.
 
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#3,138
#3,138
TheDeeble said:
I'm not thinking he'd be found innocent. But if they have procedures in line to render someone unconscious, that's a thin line they're teaching officers to navigate. How much practice and recurrency training is required for something like that.

"Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12) "
Click to expand...

8:46 total time with 2:53 after Floyd went unresponsive.

Not saying how it'll play out in court but that's very, very much going to be a thing with the prosecution.
 
#3,139
#3,139
Septic said:
If you're doing a thing and people are yelling at you that "you're killing him" and you continue to do that thing is it possible that you meant to do that thing?
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Just because you intend to committ an act does not mean you intend to do the damage said act causes. Thats negligence. Hence why the original chargers were correct unless they have more evidence of the officer saying it or having told someone or written it down. Its called misfeasance the act of doing something you are trained to do poorly
 
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#3,142
#3,142
hndog609 said:
8:46 total time with 2:53 after Floyd went unresponsive.

Not saying how it'll play out in court but that's very, very much going to be a thing with the prosecution.
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I'm sure it will. I'd hope somewhere in this training they teach when to release pressure or signs of unconsciousness.
 
#3,143
#3,143
Septic said:
If you're doing a thing and people are yelling at you that "you're killing him" and you continue to do that thing is it possible that you meant to do that thing?
Click to expand...

Depends on if you believed what you were being told. That is why intent is going to be tricky here.
 
#3,145
#3,145
rjd970 said:
Depends on if you believed what you were being told. That is why intent is going to be tricky here.
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Someone yelling that in the crowd means nothing I’ve heard the same thing being yelled for a simple handcuffing with no force on a standing suspect
 
#3,149
#3,149
TheDeeble said:
I'm not thinking he'd be found innocent. But if they have procedures in line to render someone unconscious, that's a thin line they're teaching officers to navigate. How much practice and recurrency training is required for something like that.

"Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12) "
Click to expand...
Most agencies wouldn't have something like that in training period. It's too risky, even if it WAS a very combative person
 
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