Any JJJ updates?

[KBVol]

You do realize that is you evened out his shot attempts with edwards that JJJ would have higher scoring avg....JJJ plays with in the system...im probably the minority but ill take a team player over a harden type player any day..

I realize that Edwards shoots a higher percentage from the floor than JJJ and that his role for Georgia as the central offensive option is because of how incredibly athletic and dynamic he is as an offensive player....and as such, he faces defenses designed to defend him first.....while JJJ is an afterthought from opposing defenses when they’re drawing up schemes to defend Tennessee.

I have no earthly idea why you guys can’t just be honest about what JJJ is to this point, why you feel the need to argue what was a very mild, reasoned critique I originally gave of JJJ....he’s a good, solid player with good upside/potential. He’s has at NO POINT this year remotely resembled a 5 star/one of the top rated incoming freshmen in the country. It’s not bashing him, it’s being honest about him.

 

[VolGee4]

I realize that Edwards shoots a higher percentage from the floor than JJJ and that his role for Georgia as the central offensive option is because of how incredibly athletic and dynamic he is as an offensive player....and as such, he faces defenses designed to defend him first.....while JJJ is an afterthought from opposing defenses when they’re drawing up schemes to defend Tennessee.

I have no earthly idea why you guys can’t just be honest about what JJJ is to this point, why you feel the need to argue what was a very mild, reasoned critique I originally gave of JJJ....he’s a good, solid player with good upside/potential. He’s has at NO POINT this year remotely resembled a 5 star/one of the top rated incoming freshmen in the country. It’s not bashing him, it’s being honest about him.

Except that Edwards was ranked second and JJJ was top 20ish. There is a difference, and history proves that.

 

[cardvolfan]

Wait a second....are you really telling me that 8 points, 5.5 rebounds and 37% shooting from the field is what you expect of a 5 star player? Is that what you expected from him? Over the years, I’ve seen 5 star players/freshmen be the best, most athletic, most productive players, most dominant players on the floor......been a ton of em.....JJJ is a nice player with good upside and good potential, but at no point has he even sniffed any of that.

Do you realize that Kobe Bryant only started FIVE games his first year? So, here's a specific question to you: Are you saying that pretty much every 5-star freshman on the lists within these threads is not a 5-star? How about you identify the players on this list you think are worthy of 5-star status. I'm really curious.

 

[cardvolfan]

Except that Edwards was ranked second and JJJ was top 20ish. There is a difference, and history proves that.

Haha.....Edwards shoots 40% and James 37%.

 

[KBVol]

I think we have a segment of the fanbase that would be happier if he shot 30% from 3 but looked prettier doing so

Not even sure what this means? Who the hell wants him to drop his 3 point percentage by 8% if it “looks prettier”? What are you talking about?

I’m in the segment who would like to see him shoot 45-50% overall from the field while showing the athletic ability you typically expect from a 5 star player. Also wouldn’t mind seeing him fairly consistently show the ability to create his own shot and his teammates’ good scoring opportunities while giving the team 14-15 points a games, which is reasonable for a kid who should be one of the top freshmen in the country on a team which struggles to score. At this point, Vescovi, a fellow freshman who just arrived in the country 7 weeks ago has shown much more playmaking and scoring ability than the “5 star” JJJ. At this point, “5 star” JJJ isn’t even the best freshman on the team...it’s some foreign national “3 star” from Uruguay that no one had ever even heard of before last Christmas.

 

[whodeycin85]

Not even sure what this means? Who the hell wants him to drop his 3 point percentage by 8% if it “looks prettier”? What are you talking about?

I’m in the segment who would like to see him shoot 45-50% overall from the field while showing the athletic ability you typically expect from a 5 star player. Also wouldn’t mind seeing him fairly consistently show the ability to create his own shot and his teammates’ good scoring opportunities while giving the team 14-15 points a games, which is reasonable for a kid who should be one of the top freshmen in the country on a team which struggles to score. At this point, Vescovi, a fellow freshman who just arrived in the country 7 weeks ago has shown much more playmaking and scoring ability than the “5 star” JJJ. At this point, “5 star” JJJ isn’t even the best freshman on the team...it’s some foreign national “3 star” from Uruguay that no one had ever even heard of before last Christmas.

Edwards shoots 30% from 3. He a sure fire 5 star right??

 

[KBVol]

Do you realize that Kobe Bryant only started FIVE games his first year? So, here's a specific question to you: Are you saying that pretty much every 5-star freshman on the lists within these threads is not a 5-star? How about you identify the players on this list you think are worthy of 5-star status. I'm really curious.

Kobe played college basketball? Are you really trying to use Kobe Bryant, a 17 year old who went straight from high school to the freaking Los Angels Lakers to what we’ve seen from JJJ playing on a middling SEC team?

Man, you guys are struggling here.

 

[cardvolfan]

Kobe played college basketball? Are you really trying to use Kobe Bryant, a 17 year old who went straight from high school to the freaking Los Angels Lakers to what we’ve seen from JJJ playing on a middling SEC team?

Man, you guys are struggling here.

You are an arrogant one. You knew I was referring to his first year in pro ball, I'm sure. I'm not even going to get into the rest of your insinuations, but why don't you answer my question? It's straightforward.

 

[KBVol]

Edwards shoots 30% from 3. He a sure fire 5 star right??

Edwards scores 19 ppg as the number 1 scoring option for Georgia and who will be a 1 and done, who will likely be the first or second player taken in the nba draft. And I’m not sure why you’re hung up on what these players shoot from 3....I’ve not said anything about what either shoots from 3, that’s your deal. And yes, Edward has shown that he’s absolutely a 5 star player this year, which is why some NBA team will make him a lottery pick in their draft this summer.

Conversely, JJJ scores 8 ppg game, shoots 36% from 2 point range, is the 3rd or 4th scoring option for Tennessee and will almost assuredly be at Tennessee for 3 years before he can legitimately declare for the draft.

If you’re really trying to make the case that Edwards is no better than or not as good as JJJ, you, along with 2-3 other guys in here with absolutely no perspective, are literally the only guys in the country who would take that stance. Certainly no college basketball analyst or NBA executive would.

 

[VolGee4]

Wait a second....are you really telling me that 8 points, 5.5 rebounds and 37% shooting from the field is what you expect of a 5 star player? Is that what you expected from him? Over the years, I’ve seen 5 star players/freshmen be the best, most athletic, most productive players, most dominant players on the floor......been a ton of em.....JJJ is a nice player with good upside and good potential, but at no point has he even sniffed any of that.

I suggest you look at the numbers of other 5 star players. Maybe you don’t care. But at one point, his numbers were actually better than about 6-10 other 5 stars. The 5 stars you mention are historically those ranked top 10 and automatic lottery picks. JJJ was never that.

Last year, about 14 of 31 five stars came back to school. At least another 4 went undrafted and are playing in the G League. That leaves 13 that got drafted, and some late in the first round. Interestingly, the guys that came back were mostly guards.

 

[cncchris33]

Have you looked at his stats compared to other top 25 players? What are you basing this off of? Some sort of D4H-esque "eye test"?

The belief that all 5*s are created equal and should yield immediate Zion Williamson results. Only Tennessee 5*s are busts.

I truly wish that the recruiting services only gave out 5-10 true 5* rankings. Because in any given year, that is how many really stand out above the rest. The business of calling 30 kids 5* players is what causes these kinds of debates.

 

[KBVol]

You are an arrogant one. You knew I was referring to his first year in pro ball, I'm sure. I'm not even going to get into the rest of your insinuations, but why don't you answer my question? It's straightforward.

Well, it was so nonsensical that it didn’t merit any other response than the one you got.

But if you want an answer, here are just a few 5 star players from 2019.....

James Wiseman was averaging 20 pts and 11 rebs at Memphis before he left that program

Anthony Edwards is the 3rd leading scorer in the SEC at 19 ppg

Isaiah Stewart is averaging 17 points and 9 rebounds for Washington

Cole Anthony is averaging 19/6/4 for NC

Vernon Carey is averaging 18 ppg and 8 rpg for Duke

Tyrese Maxey is averaging 13/4/3 for Kentucky

Want any more or is that enough?

 

[cardvolfan]

Well, it was so nonsensical that it didn’t merit any other response than the one you got.

But if you want an answer, here are just a few 5 star players from 2019.....

James Wiseman was averaging 20 pts and 11 rebs at Memphis before he left that program

Anthony Edwards is the 3rd leading scorer in the SEC at 19 ppg

Isaiah Stewart is averaging 17 points and 9 rebounds for Washington

Cole Anthony is averaging 19/6/4 for NC

Vernon Carey is averaging 18 ppg and 8 rpg for Duke

Tyrese Maxey is averaging 13/4/3 for Kentucky

Want any more or is that enough?

Well, Wiseman is "nonsensical" because he is out of the picture and has been most of the year. Look at the total picture with Maxey vs. James and maybe your bias will change. The other four guys I can agree with. So, maybe only 4-5 five stars according to you? Feel free to convince me on the others on the list. I'm listening.

 

[VolGee4]

Well, it was so nonsensical that it didn’t merit any other response than the one you got.

But if you want an answer, here are just a few 5 star players from 2019.....

James Wiseman was averaging 20 pts and 11 rebs at Memphis before he left that program

Anthony Edwards is the 3rd leading scorer in the SEC at 19 ppg

Isaiah Stewart is averaging 17 points and 9 rebounds for Washington

Cole Anthony is averaging 19/6/4 for NC

Vernon Carey is averaging 18 ppg and 8 rpg for Duke

Tyrese Maxey is averaging 13/4/3 for Kentucky

Want any more or is that enough?

Top 10 players. Convenient. Those are 5 star lottery picks of which JJJ is not.

Why don’t you look up the numbers for Scottie Lewis, Josh Green, Khalil Whitney, Bryan Antoine? Those are all players that were rated higher than JJJ.

Then look up Samuell Williamson, Patrick Williams, Isaiah Mobley, Wendell Moore, Tre Mann, Will Baker, Keion Brooks, and CJ Walker. All were 5 star recruits.

 

[KBVol]

The belief that all 5*s are created equal and should yield immediate Zion Williamson results. Only Tennessee 5*s are busts.

I truly wish that the recruiting services only gave out 5-10 true 5* rankings. Because in any given year, that is how many really stand out above the rest. The business of calling 30 kids 5* players is what causes these kinds of debates.

Perhaps. All I’m saying is that at no point has JJJ looked like one of the top 25 freshmen players from this class. A good bit of the time he’s looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t be starting in a .500 SEC basketball team. I’m saying I expected more, much more than the athletic ability and offensive production than he’s shown and provided thus far. And if the guys who have come out with the long knives in this thread after I had the “gall” to say that he hasn’t looked like a 5 star freshman to this point given his accolades and acclaim were being honest, there’s no way they wouldn’t been satisfied with his play if I told them before the season started that we’d get 8 points, a ton of turnovers and 37% shooting from him.

Final thing....I’ve at no point said hes not very good or that he sucks. I’ve said that he’s shown some good things, that he showed a nice stretch there for awhile where he clearly was improving and I said that he has good potential and upside going forward. I just made the cardinal sin on a Vol message board by telling the truth about one of our players, that he’s not looked like a legit 5 star player at any point this season.....which he hasn’t.

 

[VolGee4]

Perhaps. All I’m saying is that at no point has JJJ looked like one of the top 25 freshmen players from this class. A good bit of the time he’s looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t be starting in a .500 SEC basketball team. I’m saying I expected more, much more than the athletic ability and offensive production than he’s shown and provided thus far. And if the guys who have come out with the long knives in this thread after I had the “gall” to say that he hasn’t looked like a 5 star freshman to this point given his accolades and acclaim were being honest, there’s no way they wouldn’t been satisfied with his play if I told them before the season started that we’d get 8 points, a ton of turnovers and 37% shooting from him.

Final thing....I’ve at no point said hes not very good or that he sucks. I’ve said that he’s shown some good things, that he showed a nice stretch there for awhile where he clearly was improving and I said that he has good potential and upside going forward. I just made the cardinal sin on a Vol message board by telling the truth about one of our players, that he’s not looked like a legit 5 star player at any point this season.....which he hasn’t.

Then you had high expectations. Just do the research. That’s what people don’t do on here. They have a thought they believe is correct without doing the research.

The “truth” is that JJJ’s numbers are about in the middle for his ranking. That’s it. Sure, we would all love for him to be better. But it was discussed preseason that he was raw offensively. Not all 5 stars are instant stars, which again, the numbers prove that.

 

[cardvolfan]

Perhaps. All I’m saying is that at no point has JJJ looked like one of the top 25 freshmen players from this class. A good bit of the time he’s looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t be starting in a .500 SEC basketball team. I’m saying I expected more, much more than the athletic ability and offensive production than he’s shown and provided thus far. And if the guys who have come out with the long knives in this thread after I had the “gall” to say that he hasn’t looked like a 5 star freshman to this point given his accolades and acclaim were being honest, there’s no way they wouldn’t been satisfied with his play if I told them before the season started that we’d get 8 points, a ton of turnovers and 37% shooting from him.

Final thing....I’ve at no point said hes not very good or that he sucks. I’ve said that he’s shown some good things, that he showed a nice stretch there for awhile where he clearly was improving and I said that he has good potential and upside going forward. I just made the cardinal sin on a Vol message board by telling the truth about one of our players, that he’s not looked like a legit 5 star player at any point this season.....which he hasn’t.

A guy that shouldn't be starting on a .500 team averaging 8 points? You need to be a comedian. Seriously, your bias makes you look less than brilliant.

 

[cncchris33]

Perhaps. All I’m saying is that at no point has JJJ looked like one of the top 25 freshmen players from this class. A good bit of the time he’s looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t be starting in a .500 SEC basketball team. I’m saying I expected more, much more than the athletic ability and offensive production than he’s shown and provided thus far. And if the guys who have come out with the long knives in this thread after I had the “gall” to say that he hasn’t looked like a 5 star freshman to this point given his accolades and acclaim were being honest, there’s no way they wouldn’t been satisfied with his play if I told them before the season started that we’d get 8 points, a ton of turnovers and 37% shooting from him.

Final thing....I’ve at no point said hes not very good or that he sucks. I’ve said that he’s shown some good things, that he showed a nice stretch there for awhile where he clearly was improving and I said that he has good potential and upside going forward. I just made the cardinal sin on a Vol message board by telling the truth about one of our players, that he’s not looked like a legit 5 star player at any point this season.....which he hasn’t.

As others have said, his stats match up with the majority of other 5* guards and wings in the 2019 class. Of those 14 players, JJJ ranks 7th in PPG, 2nd in RPG, and 2nd in APG. He is also a really good defender.

But, if your expectations were for him to be a prolific scorer, you were doomed from the start. That just isn't his strength as a player. He is more of a jack of all trades, master of none, at this point. He does a lot of things well, but nothing great, yet.

 

[KBVol]

Top 10 players. Convenient. Those are 5 star lottery picks of which JJJ is not.

Why don’t you look up the numbers for Scottie Lewis, Josh Green, Khalil Whitney, Bryan Antoine? Those are all players that were rated higher than JJJ.

Then look up Samuell Williamson, Patrick Williams, Isaiah Mobley, Wendell Moore, Tre Mann, Will Baker, Keion Brooks, and CJ Walker. All were 5 star recruits.

JJJ was rated a 5 star....i was told that none of the other 5 stars were any good, were doing any better than JJJ, so I simply looked at the list and started going down the list....and JJJ’s play, as the #22 player in the country, has been nowhere near the production of those guys.

And are you telling me that a top 22 player generally has no chance being a one and done early NBA draft pick? There are 350 or so Division 1 college basketball teams, probably sign, conservatively, 3-4 players each year.....that’s at 1,000+ players each year.....JJJ was the #22 rated player in the country, but he wasn’t the #5 rated player in the country, so shouldn’t be expected to be better than 8 ppg and a 37% shooter? And he, as the #22 player in the country among more than 1,000 signed last year by Division 1 schools in 2019 couldn’t be good enough to be a “one and done” player because he wasn’t rated 1-5? Alrighty then.

 

[EZE]

Perhaps. All I’m saying is that at no point has JJJ looked like one of the top 25 freshmen players from this class. A good bit of the time he’s looked like a guy who probably shouldn’t be starting in a .500 SEC basketball team. I’m saying I expected more, much more than the athletic ability and offensive production than he’s shown and provided thus far. And if the guys who have come out with the long knives in this thread after I had the “gall” to say that he hasn’t looked like a 5 star freshman to this point given his accolades and acclaim were being honest, there’s no way they wouldn’t been satisfied with his play if I told them before the season started that we’d get 8 points, a ton of turnovers and 37% shooting from him.

Final thing....I’ve at no point said hes not very good or that he sucks. I’ve said that he’s shown some good things, that he showed a nice stretch there for awhile where he clearly was improving and I said that he has good potential and upside going forward. I just made the cardinal sin on a Vol message board by telling the truth about one of our players, that he’s not looked like a legit 5 star player at any point this season.....which he hasn’t.

I understand where you are coming from...currently, the stats do not represent an established star player. They are far from it.

Now, folks can debate whether we should have expected an immediate star or not. I tend to lean to your side. It is reasonable to expect an immediate, major impact from a 5-Star player...especially when you consider how much talent this team lost from last year’s roster (GWill, Admiral, Bone, Alexander and Turner). The opportunity to shine was/is there.

I also wouldn’t give up on him just yet. Barnes can develop players, and sometimes it takes a season for a player to adjust. But, this offseason in Barnes’ development program will be critical. We will know very quickly next season what his ceiling will be IMO.

 

[KBVol]

A guy that shouldn't be starting on a .500 team averaging 8 points? You need to be a comedian. Seriously, your bias makes you look less than brilliant.

Nice job misstating what I said, but whatever.

Ok, you’re right, he’s killing it this year. He’s clearly one of the best freshmen in the country, clearly gonna be a freshman all-SEC first team guy, very likely a Freshman All-American. He’s not our 4th or so scoring option, he’s the the first option and the guy we go to when we need a bucket. Hes efficient and the reason we even had a chance to beat Kansas, with his 0 points, 0-6 shooting and 6 turnovers. He’s just been an amazing freshman for us, everything we all thought he would be before the season and more....he makes what Tobias Harris did as a 5-star, one done freshman look awful .....clearly a one and done player and we’re gonna miss him next year after he’s drafted in June.

 

[cardvolfan]

Nice job misstating what I said, but whatever.

Ok, you’re right, he’s killing it this year. He’s clearly one of the best freshmen in the country, clearly gonna be a freshman all-SEC first team guy, very likely a Freshman All-American. He’s not our 4th or so scoring option, he’s the the first option and the guy we go to when we need a bucket. Hes efficient and the reason we even had a chance to beat Kansas, with his 0 points, 0-6 shooting and 6 turnovers. He’s just been an amazing freshman for us, everything we all thought he would be before the season and more....he makes what Tobias Harris did as a 5-star, one done freshman look awful .....clearly a one and done player and we’re gonna miss him next year after he’s drafted in June.

How about answering my question? If not, I'm qualifying your lack of response as meaning there were only 4-5 five stars this year. I'm asking a legitimate question, but you choose not to answer?

 

[VolGee4]

JJJ was rated a 5 star....i was told that none of the other 5 stars were any good, were doing any better than JJJ, so I simply looked at the list and started going down the list....and JJJ’s play, as the #22 player in the country, has been nowhere near the production of those guys.

And are you telling me that a top 22 player generally has no chance being a one and done early NBA draft pick? There are 350 or so Division 1 college basketball teams, probably sign, conservatively, 3-4 players each year.....that’s at 1,000+ players each year.....JJJ was the #22 rated player in the country, but he wasn’t the #5 rated player in the country, so shouldn’t be expected to be better than 8 ppg and a 37% shooter? And he, as the #22 player in the country among more than 1,000 signed last year by Division 1 schools in 2019 couldn’t be good enough to be a “one and done” player because he wasn’t rated 1-5? Alrighty then.

The first paragraph is nonsense. Just typical things that weren’t discussed. Absolutely NO ONE said the other 5 stars weren’t good. What we said was that #2 is not the same as #22. History has proven that...time and time again.

On average, top 10 players have a greater chance at being one and done. Sure, you will see players outside the top 10 leave, but some don’t even get drafted.

Can’t debate with nonsense. You just can’t comprehend.

 

[VolGee4]

I understand where you are coming from...currently, the stats do not represent an established star player. They are far from it.

Now, folks can debate whether we should have expected an immediate star or not. I tend to lean to your side. It is reasonable to expect an immediate, major impact from a 5-Star player...especially when you consider how much talent this team lost from last year’s roster (GWill, Admiral, Bone, Alexander and Turner). The opportunity to shine was/is there.

I also wouldn’t give up on him just yet. Barnes can develop players, and sometimes it takes a season for a player to adjust. But, this offseason in Barnes’ development program will be critical. We will know very quickly next season what his ceiling will be IMO.

He has also been injured. Had a hip issue in preseason. Pretty sure Barnes was on record with that.

Jordan Bone’s development was slowed by his preseason injury his freshman year, and then he’s a 3 star that gets drafted after his junior year.

 

[EZE]

He has also been injured. Had a hip issue in preseason. Pretty sure Barnes was on record with that.

Jordan Bone’s development was slowed by his preseason injury his freshman year, and then he’s a 3 star that gets drafted after his junior year.

Good point about the injury. Another reason to not give up just yet.