Are this season's Vols better than the 2023-24 team?

[sami]

I am not sure I have seen a Rick Barnes team quit prior to tonight.

Saying they quit is such an ignorant comment, and reeks of butthurt. Guys like Ziegler and Mashack quit? Tell them that to their face.

I swear, it's as if a segment of this forum never played a damn sport in their life or just started watching sports and believe that anything short of perfection is a failure.

They came out flat and ice cold, and Florida was on fire. It snowballed and got away from the Vols and they pressed, as players will do when not playing well. Games like this happen, and listening to Barnes post game he sees it as a good thing to learn from.

But don't let that stop you and the rest of the vultures here from throwing dirt on their grave.

 

[GAV4L]

Saying they quit is such an ignorant comment, and reeks of butthurt. Guys like Ziegler and Mashack quit? Tell them that to their face.

I swear, it's as if a segment of this forum never played a damn sport in their life or just started watching sports and believe that anything short of perfection is a failure.

They came out flat and ice cold, and Florida was on fire. It snowballed and got away from the Vols and they pressed, as players will do when not playing well. Games like this happen, and listening to Barnes post game he sees it as a good thing to learn from.

But don't let that stop you and the rest of the vultures here from throwing dirt on their grave.

Refs let Condon get away with murder too. Was just a bad night.

We will beat the Lizards big at TBA.

 

[GAV4L]

Are this season's Vols better than the 2023-24 team?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I once said yes. But no not even close. Sad.

 

[jtdavis]

Not even close.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Not even close.

 

[sami]

Reviving this thread that got suddenly quiet as the team has begun to find itself and settle into what it might still become. This is beginning to look like the team I envisioned and hoped to see a couple of months ago. Guys are understanding and embracing their roles, and playing as a unit, never more so than today.

While Chaz might be disappointing some fans due to not being 'Dalton Take 2', he has become a versatile offensive weapon who has adapted to the Barnes screen and cut offense and is now showing an ability to take it to the rack as well, and his defense has improved game by game. Igor is a stretch 4 who can also take it to the rim and is an excellent passer and a fierce rebounder.

Felix is the feared rim protector we were hoping for when he arrived, and has upgraded the center position exponentially. D-Stone is still finding his place, but is getting more confident game by game. Cade has grown into a second rim protector, offensive rebounding demon and major lob threat.

And what can you say about ZZ and Shack? They are more of a nightmare to play against than ever, if that's possible. Gainey has become like a secret weapon off the bench, doing exactly what is needed from game to game.

And the amazing thing is they can still get better, we have more than a month before the games become must-wins. Can they be better than last year? Aside from having that guy you can hand the ball to and clear out, I believe that they already are in terms of quality depth and all around play.

 

[foolonthehill]

Reviving this thread that got suddenly quiet as the team has begun to find itself and settle into what it might still become. This is beginning to look like the team I envisioned and hoped to see a couple of months ago. Guys are understanding and embracing their roles, and playing as a unit, never more so than today.

While Chaz might be disappointing some fans due to not being 'Dalton Take 2', he has become a versatile offensive weapon who has adapted to the Barnes screen and cut offense and is now showing an ability to take it to the rack as well, and his defense has improved game by game. Igor is a stretch 4 who can also take it to the rim and is an excellent passer and a fierce rebounder.

Felix is the feared rim protector we were hoping for when he arrived, and has upgraded the center position exponentially. D-Stone is still finding his place, but is getting more confident game by game. Cade has grown into a second rim protector, offensive rebounding demon and major lob threat.

And what can you say about ZZ and Shack? They are more of a nightmare to play against than ever, if that's possible. Gainey has become like a secret weapon off the bench, doing exactly what is needed from game to game.

And the amazing thing is they can still get better, we have more than a month before the games become must-wins. Can they be better than last year? Aside from having that guy you can hand the ball to and clear out, I believe that they already are in terms of quality depth and all around play.

There was something I heard on one of the broadcasts. "The flu has been running rampant through this team." I only heard about Igor. Still. We should all agree we could have won all our games except the fla blowout.

Good analysis.

 

[Vol in Buckeye Land]

Reviving this thread that got suddenly quiet as the team has begun to find itself and settle into what it might still become. This is beginning to look like the team I envisioned and hoped to see a couple of months ago. Guys are understanding and embracing their roles, and playing as a unit, never more so than today.

While Chaz might be disappointing some fans due to not being 'Dalton Take 2', he has become a versatile offensive weapon who has adapted to the Barnes screen and cut offense and is now showing an ability to take it to the rack as well, and his defense has improved game by game. Igor is a stretch 4 who can also take it to the rim and is an excellent passer and a fierce rebounder.

Felix is the feared rim protector we were hoping for when he arrived, and has upgraded the center position exponentially. D-Stone is still finding his place, but is getting more confident game by game. Cade has grown into a second rim protector, offensive rebounding demon and major lob threat.

And what can you say about ZZ and Shack? They are more of a nightmare to play against than ever, if that's possible. Gainey has become like a secret weapon off the bench, doing exactly what is needed from game to game.

And the amazing thing is they can still get better, we have more than a month before the games become must-wins. Can they be better than last year? Aside from having that guy you can hand the ball to and clear out, I believe that they already are in terms of quality depth and all around play.

People set themselves up for disappointment with Chaz crowning him the 2nd coming of Knecht a month into the season. Turns out you may not quite be at the level of the best male basketball player to wear orange in 40+ years and can still be pretty darn good and help your team win.

 

[Lefteye]

People set themselves up for disappointment with Chaz crowning him the 2nd coming of Knecht a month into the season. Turns out you may not quite be at the level of the best male basketball player to wear orange in 40+ years and can still be pretty darn good and help your team win.

I can definitely live with Chaz kind of disappointment

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Reviving this thread that got suddenly quiet as the team has begun to find itself and settle into what it might still become. This is beginning to look like the team I envisioned and hoped to see a couple of months ago. Guys are understanding and embracing their roles, and playing as a unit, never more so than today.

While Chaz might be disappointing some fans due to not being 'Dalton Take 2', he has become a versatile offensive weapon who has adapted to the Barnes screen and cut offense and is now showing an ability to take it to the rack as well, and his defense has improved game by game. Igor is a stretch 4 who can also take it to the rim and is an excellent passer and a fierce rebounder.

Felix is the feared rim protector we were hoping for when he arrived, and has upgraded the center position exponentially. D-Stone is still finding his place, but is getting more confident game by game. Cade has grown into a second rim protector, offensive rebounding demon and major lob threat.

And what can you say about ZZ and Shack? They are more of a nightmare to play against than ever, if that's possible. Gainey has become like a secret weapon off the bench, doing exactly what is needed from game to game.

And the amazing thing is they can still get better, we have more than a month before the games become must-wins. Can they be better than last year? Aside from having that guy you can hand the ball to and clear out, I believe that they already are in terms of quality depth and all around play.

To be fair, when those comments were made this team did not look better than last year's team.
Have they legitly turned the corner on offense with this new found approach of making it a priority to go to the basket?
Damn I hope so, because if they have we might just be better than last year's team.
Most notably to me is at the 5 position.
Felix is doing so much for us I'm not sure a lot of fans actually realize it.

 

[sami]

To be fair, when those comments were made this team did not look better than last year's team.

The premise of the thread was a question - could they be better? I thought they had a chance because of the potential versatility the new guys brought that last year's group didn't have, and that we'd see if that growth took place.

People chose to jump on here with stupid gifs after every loss, but suddenly are MIA. The silence has been deafening.

There's a long way to go, but I think this group can get even better. They're winning games playing whatever style the game dictates, the in-game adjustments have been remarkable, the defense is as elite as ever, and this is arguably the most consistent offensive group Barnes has had here, where we can get scoring from multiple players on a given night.

If they stay healthy, the Vols are going to be a brutal 'out' in March.

 

[omghulkhands]

Our KP net rating is much higher right now than it was after the NCAA tournament last year. FWIW

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

The premise of the thread was a question - could they be better? I thought they had a chance because of the potential versatility the new guys brought that last year's group didn't have, and that we'd see if that growth took place.

People chose to jump on here with stupid gifs after every loss, but suddenly are MIA. The silence has been deafening.

There's a long way to go, but I think this group can get even better. They're winning games playing whatever style the game dictates, the in-game adjustments have been remarkable, the defense is as elite as ever, and this is arguably the most consistent offensive group Barnes has had here, where we can get scoring from multiple players on a given night.

If they stay healthy, the Vols are going to be a brutal 'out' in March.

You are posting what you are posting today with the benefit of hindsight. NOT ONE single person was willing to debate when those gifts were made. ( It was " are they better " and not " could they be better", btw)
The fact of the matter is we don't necessarily know at this moment if this team will end up being better than last year's team.
What if they return to terrible shooting and jacking 3's again? What if that happens and we go 4-4 rest of the Season, get bounced in SEC Tourney and round 2 of NCAA tournament?
Clearly they weren't better than last year's team.

 

[Dainfluencer8]

There was something I heard on one of the broadcasts. "The flu has been running rampant through this team." I only heard about Igor. Still. We should all agree we could have won all our games except the fla blowout.

Good analysis.

Both

You are posting what you are posting today with the benefit of hindsight. NOT ONE single person was willing to debate when those gifts were made.
The fact of the matter is we don't necessarily know at this moment if this team will end up being better than last year's team.
What if they return to terrible shooting and jacking 3's again? What if that happens and we go 4-4 rest of the Season, get bounced in SEC Tourney and round 2 of NCAA tournament?
Clearly they weren't better than last year's team.

I mean you are entitled to your opinion, but if your only take is “what if’s” which happen to be all “negative”, then you get what you speak of!!

But I think this year team is slightly better than last year team at this point of the season… the versatility of this team doesn’t has to rely on “one person”… I loved Dalton, but I’m glad we don’t have a Dalton on this team! I love seeing when Chaz isn’t shooting his best, other guys are stepping up, which we didn’t see at times last season when Dalton wasn’t shooting his best…

Now is this team success overall better than last years team?? That’s still to be determined, but I’m going to speak positive and life into this team and say, I feel more “confident” that this team is more capable of making a Final Four than last year team!

 

[hUTch2002]

The premise of the thread was a question - could they be better? I thought they had a chance because of the potential versatility the new guys brought that last year's group didn't have, and that we'd see if that growth took place.

People chose to jump on here with stupid gifs after every loss, but suddenly are MIA. The silence has been deafening.

There's a long way to go, but I think this group can get even better. They're winning games playing whatever style the game dictates, the in-game adjustments have been remarkable, the defense is as elite as ever, and this is arguably the most consistent offensive group Barnes has had here, where we can get scoring from multiple players on a given night.

If they stay healthy, the Vols are going to be a brutal 'out' in March.

I believe we will equal or exceed the run we made last year so yes.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Both

I mean you are entitled to your opinion, but if your only take is “what if’s” which happen to be all “negative”, then you get what you speak of!!

But I think this year team is slightly better than last year team at this point of the season… the versatility of this team doesn’t has to rely on “one person”… I loved Dalton, but I’m glad we don’t have a Dalton on this team! I love seeing when Chaz isn’t shooting his best, other guys are stepping up, which we didn’t see at times last season when Dalton wasn’t shooting his best…

Now is this team success overall better than last years team?? That’s still to be determined, but I’m going to speak positive and life into this team and say, I feel more “confident” that this team is more capable of making a Final Four than last year team!

Of course I'm entitled to my opinion here because there's no way at this point in time to necessarily make an objective statement.

It also matters what defines/ is meant by being "better"?

Is it strictly eye test?

PPG, NET, KenPoM ratings?

Is who gets more overall wins?

Who ends up being better in confernce?
( if it is that one the answer is no because we already have same losses we did last year in all SEC play and and we won the SEC regular season last year)

Who ends up going farther in the SEC tournament?

Who ends up going farther in NCAA tournament?

Also, I don't know about the other people in this thread because I can't be arsed into keeping up with who is and isn't necessarily being "positive" or "negative"at all times, but speaking for myself,
I speak accordingly.
There's a time to be critical and a time to give praise. It all depends on how we are doing in the season. I'm adult enough to handle to both responsibly.

 

[sami]

Listen, everything in sports is subjective except for W's and L's, and the possibility is always there that this team could steam into the NCAA's on fire and run into a red hot shooting team on the first weekend and get bounced. Funny things can happen in an elimination tournament. If they fall short of the final 8, are they a worse team than last year's? Objectively, the obvious answer is yes.

My point was that the people that were so quick to say "absolutely not" and post stupid gifs all of a sudden got very quiet. I only responded to idiotic suggestions about guys quitting because there was still a ton of basketball to be played before we would know where this team stood compared to past Barnes teams.

It's my contention that this is the most well rounded, versatile group he has had in his time here. I didn't believe in my heart of hearts that we would beat Purdue last year, or that we could have beaten UConn. I honestly don't see a team that I believe this group can't beat if they are firing on all cylinders like they have been, and that even if they aren't the ability to adjust in-game and our defense gives us a chance anyway.

Last year it was 'DK or bust' in many big games, but this team is finding different ways to win in any kind of game, which is exactly what is needed in a tournament like the NCAA's. It all remains to be seen, obviously.

 

[kayman1]

Yes

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

My point was that the people that were so quick to say "absolutely not" and post stupid gifs all of a sudden got very quiet.

Did you ever think there was nothing posted after the gifs because they were posted over 3 weeks ago and this thread got bumped down out of sight?
We simply answered the question posed in the thread title with a gif. I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving our opinion in that manner either. Absolutely nothing. Nobody still can say for sure one way of the other because there is a lot of season left. We simply responded to a hypothetical question.

Also, I don't know what you mean "quite all of a sudden". I've been posting non stop on this site....lol
I think you're just looking for a reason to try to be smart and/or someone to troll with a " told ya so" post.
If you wanted to rasie objections to those gifs, and were so confident in your position as you are now that our team is trending in a much more positive direction, you'd posted a rebuttal with this same energy when the gifs were posted.
But you didn't. That actually says a lot.

 

[KTrain]

The premise of the thread was a question - could they be better? I thought they had a chance because of the potential versatility the new guys brought that last year's group didn't have, and that we'd see if that growth took place.

People chose to jump on here with stupid gifs after every loss, but suddenly are MIA. The silence has been deafening.

There's a long way to go, but I think this group can get even better. They're winning games playing whatever style the game dictates, the in-game adjustments have been remarkable, the defense is as elite as ever, and this is arguably the most consistent offensive group Barnes has had here, where we can get scoring from multiple players on a given night.

If they stay healthy, the Vols are going to be a brutal 'out' in March.

They can be better but the majority on here will say they're not unless they make the F4 IMO. March can be brutal; it's about matchups a lot of good to great teams have met up with a team that is on fire and upper gets knocked out by a lower matchup. A lot of times one of the final 4 have just got hot and nobody had them there on bracketology. We shall see a lot of fortunate things have to happen. No injuries, way the game is called and just bad luck of drawing a team that hits say +60% from 3 will make for an early exit from a normally lesser team.

 

[sami]

If you wanted to rasie objections to those gifs, and were so confident in your position as you are now that our team is trending in a much more positive direction, you'd posted a rebuttal with this same energy when the gifs were posted.
But you didn't. That actually says a lot.

Rebuttal to what, exactly? Responding to idiotic gifs by the usual suspects who love to pile on after any loss is pointless. If someone had come on and made an actual point and an argument why they disagreed with the thread premise (you know, an actual discussion?), you would be correct that no response would have been telling.

The 'trolls' are the people with no actual point to make other than things like convenient gifs and snide remarks in lieu of actual conversation.

 

[sami]

They can be better but the majority on here will say they're not unless they make the F4 IMO. March can be brutal; it's about matchups a lot of good to great teams have met up with a team that is on fire and upper gets knocked out by a lower matchup. A lot of times one of the final 4 have just got hot and nobody had them there on bracketology. We shall see a lot of fortunate things have to happen. No injuries, way the game is called and just bad luck of drawing a team that hits say +60% from 3 will make for an early exit from a normally lesser team.

No doubt. Alabama last year is a classic example of getting an incredibly fortunate draw and avoiding top teams due to upsets, and we were the exact opposite of that.

I'm looking at the entire body of work and just how the team looks, how their offensive structure has changed, and if they are just as effective defensively. The league is much deeper with really good teams this year (12 or 13 of which might make the NCAA's), and to me this Vols unit has more ways to win tough games than last year's group, and is clearly getting better and more confident on their roles as the season moves on.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

You are posting what you are posting today with the benefit of hindsight. NOT ONE single person was willing to debate when those gifts were made. ( It was " are they better " and not " could they be better", btw)
The fact of the matter is we don't necessarily know at this moment if this team will end up being better than last year's team.
What if they return to terrible shooting and jacking 3's again? What if that happens and we go 4-4 rest of the Season, get bounced in SEC Tourney and round 2 of NCAA tournament?
Clearly they weren't better than last year's team.

We are better than we were last year.

 

[KTrain]

No doubt. Alabama last year is a classic example of getting an incredibly fortunate draw and avoiding top teams due to upsets, and we were the exact opposite of that.

I'm looking at the entire body of work and just how the team looks, how their offensive structure has changed, and if they are just as effective defensively. The league is much deeper with really good teams this year (12 or 13 of which might make the NCAA's), and to me this Vols unit has more ways to win tough games than last year's group, and is clearly getting better and more confident on their roles as the season moves on.

My biggest worry for SEC teams, is they are all going through a gauntlet regular season. Then they face almost a fifth of the 68 NCAA field in the SEC tournament weekend before the big dance. The SEC may just cut the legs off of their own teams run by self destruction.