Are UF and LSU about to kill their programs?

#26
#26
PEPPERJAX said:
TN should have been criticized more for hiring horrendous athletic directors. Those piss poor hires after Dickey were crushing blows to the program. I do feel confident that Danny White will do great things here.
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Danny White is the only guy who has appeared to know what he's doing here since Dickey, that's for sure.

I also think he was hired in no small part due to his family ties and to curry favor with the NCAA. He comes from athletic administration royalty. I still can't believe he left his old job to come here.
 
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#27
#27
05_never_again said:
Danny White is the only guy who has appeared to know what he's doing here since Dickey, that's for sure.

I also think he was hired in no small part due to his family ties and to curry favor with the NCAA. He comes from athletic administration royalty. I still can't believe he left his old job to come here.
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He would have had to work with Guz Malzahn and GS has halitosis per my Auburn sources.
 
#30
#30
K-town Vol Fan said:
Something I was thinking about. Are these programs holding their coaches to such a high standard that it is impossible to meet or exceed? And thus creating a situation where its going to be very difficult for them to find a good coach to come there and succeed.

Mullen is 33-14 at UF and just 1 year removed from an SEC east title.

Ed O is 49-18 and just 2 years removed from a NC.

It just seems to me there aren't many coaches who are going to be willing to go to a school where if you don't win a NC every 3 years or a conference title every year then you're on the hot seat.

Personally I think both schools are making a mistake, especially UF. I dont think they are going to do much better than Mullen. I love Huepel but I would still take Mullen over him.
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Looking at this through orange colored glasses. The firing of the coach is never a problem as long as you replace him with a better coach.....this is a concept that UT clearly struggles to grasp.
 
#31
#31
Okay, but have you not observed that there aren't better coaches? It's fun to talk about on message boards, but when people try it, it doesn't really work. If you want to jibber jabber, you can wait until a guy is 6 - 0 (like, say, Brady Hoke was a week ago) and then you can say "See everybody, that proves you can just hire a better coach and it's super easy". But then when he reels off 4 losses in a row, somehow another it doesn't prevent the next round of jibber jabber.

Michigan and A&M are the best examples of teams who legitimately bought the highest priced and best coach there was, and provided him with basically no restriction on his resources. They're just not that great.

I'm just glad it's not my money. Holy cow how that must pain the people who pay for it.
 
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#32
#32
Firebirdparts said:
Okay, but have you not observed that there aren't better coaches? It's fun to talk about on message boards, but when people try it, it doesn't really work. If you want to jibber jabber, you can wait until a guy is 6 - 0 (like, say, Brady Hoke was a week ago) and then you can say "See everybody, that proves you can just hire a better coach and it's super easy". But then when he reels off 4 losses in a row, somehow another it doesn't prevent the next round of jibber jabber.

Michigan and A&M are the best examples of teams who legitimately bought the highest priced and best coach there was, and provided him with basically no restriction on his resources. They're just not that great.

I'm just glad it's not my money. Holy cow how that must pain the people who pay for it.
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Coaching hires are way more of a crap shoot than anybody...fans, admin people, boosters, coaches themselves, would ever admit. There is a huge hindsight bias effect to it...whether a coach ends up doing really great or really poorly everybody thinks it was was totally obvious from the very beginning how it would turn out.

The greatest coach in the history of the sport, Nick Saban, wasn't even Alabama's first choice. Harbaugh (as you mentioned) and Scott Frost were seen as no doubt, slam dunk hires for their schools who would get them to the places they wanted to be. The buffoon Coach O ended up winning a national title as a head coach. Urban Meyer ran a "gimmick" offense that wouldn't work at Florida. Pete Carroll was a mediocre NFL coach who wouldn't succeed in college. What does that say about the predictability of these things?
 
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#33
#33
05_never_again said:
Coaching hires are way more of a crap shoot than anybody...fans, admin people, boosters, coaches themselves, would ever admit. There is a huge hindsight bias effect to it...whether a coach ends up doing really great or really poorly everybody thinks it was was totally obvious from the very beginning how it would turn out.

The greatest coach in the history of the sport, Nick Saban, wasn't even Alabama's first choice. Harbaugh (as you mentioned) and Scott Frost were seen as no doubt, slam dunk hires for their schools who would get them to the places they wanted to be. The buffoon Coach O ended up winning a national title as a head coach. Urban Meyer ran a "gimmick" offense that wouldn't work at Florida. Pete Carroll was a mediocre NFL coach who wouldn't succeed in college. What does that say about the predictability of these things?
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It's the organizational effect. Same thing applies in business. You can bring in the most talented leader in the world, but unless he has the right followers, not necessarily the best followers, there will be stumbling blocks.
 
#34
#34
orangepridenation said:
It's the organizational effect. Same thing applies in business. You can bring in the most talented leader in the world, but unless he has the right followers, not necessarily the best followers, there will be stumbling blocks.
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Yes, but even that is unpredictable. The best indicator of a college football coach hire being successful, or any the hire of any manager/decision-maker, is how well the organization is aligned with them. In the case of football a head coach is going to have both bosses and subordinates, both of which need to be aligned with that guy.

An organization can be well-aligned, but the guy can come in and screw it up. The organization might be a mess, but the guy might come in and help fix it. Or, organizations that are messed up might hire good coaches, but they smother him and don't let him do his job.

It's just so hard to know - there is so much luck associated with hiring the right person. And for these ADs their job at their institution is, in all likelihood, tied to whether or not they hire a football/basketball coach who wins. I know they are well-compensated and get buyouts like coaches do, but that seems like an incredibly stressful job.
 
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#35
#35
Remy said:
Both schools have a history of being very quick to terminate coaches, even quicker than we do and we're fast. So this is not new for either of them. Also, contrary to what their fan bases think, both have a history much like we do where they tend hire up and coming type coaches and not names. For every Zook there is a Spurrier and for every DiNardo there is a Saban. Like Auburn they hire and fire quickly, we conversely rarely fire quickly enough.
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We rarely fire quick enough? Please tell me you are joking. So going off this comment, how long should a head coach get?
 
#36
#36
05_never_again said:
Yes, but even that is unpredictable. The best indicator of a college football coach hire being successful, or any the hire of any manager/decision-maker, is how well the organization is aligned with them. In the case of football a head coach is going to have both bosses and subordinates, both of which need to be aligned with that guy.

An organization can be well-aligned, but the guy can come in and screw it up. The organization might be a mess, but the guy might come in and help fix it. Or, organizations that are messed up might hire good coaches, but they smother him and don't let him do his job.

It's just so hard to know - there is so much luck associated with hiring the right person. And for these ADs their job at their institution is, in all likelihood, tied to whether or not they hire a football/basketball coach who wins. I know they are well-compensated and get buyouts like coaches do, but that seems like an incredibly stressful job.
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Great post. There is no such thing as a sure fire hire. There isn’t a soul on this planet that could have imagined Saban would become what he has. Look at Mullen. Is he a good head coach? Barely. He has never won anything of significance. McEllwain won back to back East titles. And he never lost to UK. Mullen has lost to UK twice.

If people are going to say Mullen is a great coach, then you cannot conversely say that Smart isn’t an even better HC. Mullen hasn’t even approached Smarts accomplishments.

Hiring a head coach is just like playing the lottery.
 
#37
#37
K-town Vol Fan said:
Something I was thinking about. Are these programs holding their coaches to such a high standard that it is impossible to meet or exceed? And thus creating a situation where its going to be very difficult for them to find a good coach to come there and succeed.

Mullen is 33-14 at UF and just 1 year removed from an SEC east title.

Ed O is 49-18 and just 2 years removed from a NC.

It just seems to me there aren't many coaches who are going to be willing to go to a school where if you don't win a NC every 3 years or a conference title every year then you're on the hot seat.

Personally I think both schools are making a mistake, especially UF. I dont think they are going to do much better than Mullen. I love Huepel but I would still take Mullen over him.
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Mullen is a weirdo
 
#38
#38
House of Neyland said:
If not for the McDonald’s bags Pruitt would still be on the sideline right now with Fulmer as AD still saying we are back. Tennessee has incredibly low standards much more than Florida and LSU
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Congrats, you are the second troll to hit my Ignore list. I don’t have the time to waste to read the continuous drivel you post.
 
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#40
#40
House of Neyland said:
If not for the McDonald’s bags Pruitt would still be on the sideline right now with Fulmer as AD still saying we are back. Tennessee has incredibly low standards much more than Florida and LSU
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Please stop with the McDonalds bags BS. It makes you look stupid.
 
#41
#41
RDU VOL#14 said:
If I were making an argument to show how important Quarterback play is to being successful, Cam and Joe Burrow would be example 1 and 1A.
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Exactly….and further reinforces my feelings about Fulmer who took the greatest QB that will ever play at UT…and one of the greatest QB’s in NFL history….and has nothing to show for it other than a monumental devastating loss to Memphis State, regular beatings from Spurrier, and a couple of Citrus Bowls. Absolutely heartbreaking what could’ve been.
 
#42
#42
If they hire the right guys, no. If they hire the wrong guys, it won't kill their programs, but we as UT fans know it can set it back several several years.
 
#43
#43
House of Neyland said:
If not for the McDonald’s bags Pruitt would still be on the sideline right now with Fulmer as AD still saying we are back. Tennessee has incredibly low standards much more than Florida and LSU
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That's a failure of leadership.
 
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