Are we using the wrong metric to talk about economic improvement?

#1
AshG

AshG

Easy target
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
8,374
Likes
7,400
#1
No, I'm not trying to take a dump on the stock market gains. They're an important measure to consider. I'm also not trying to play down unemployment numbers. Things are looking better for many people because of it.

Why don't we talk equally about median income, jobs with health and retirement benefits, and income indexed to inflation as well? Median income has increased, but it's not tracking well against inflation. Many of the added jobs provide little or no benefits beyond a paycheck, which results in newly employed people at the bottom often having to work two jobs to cover basic needs.

So much of how we talk about the economy - the stock market - benefits shareholders rather than the bulk of the population. Why are we reticent to directly discuss the metrics that directly affect the largest number of people in the country?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roustabout, USMC-TNVOL and FLVOL_79
#2
#2
AshG said:
No, I'm not trying to take a dump on the stock market gains. They're an important measure to consider. I'm also not trying to play down unemployment numbers. Things are looking better for many people because of it.

Why don't we talk equally about median income, jobs with health and retirement benefits, and income indexed to inflation as well? Median income has increased, but it's not tracking well against inflation. Many of the added jobs provide little or no benefits beyond a paycheck, which results in newly employed people at the bottom often having to work two jobs to cover basic needs.

So much of how we talk about the economy - the stock market - benefits shareholders rather than the bulk of the population. Why are we reticent to directly discuss the metrics that directly affect the largest number of people in the country?
Click to expand...

Anyone with a 401K or some sort of retirement plan is tied to the market. The median income is helping the lower end of the spectrum as opposed to the upper tier. And what inflation ? 😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: 82_VOL_83
#3
#3
FLVOL69 said:
Anyone with a 401K or some sort of retirement plan is tied to the market. The median income is helping the lower end of the spectrum as opposed to the upper tier. And what inflation ? 😂
Click to expand...

And that's exactly what I'm talking about. If we want to convince the naysayers that the economy is actually improving, why aren't those the metrics we're focusing on?

As for your laugh emoji about inflation, we are flat for now but the Fed has signaled that they are willing to let some inflation take place in the near future.

My point is that there is more positive going on than we're hearing about.
 
#4
#4
AshG said:
And that's exactly what I'm talking about. If we want to convince the naysayers that the economy is actually improving, why aren't those the metrics we're focusing on?

As for your laugh emoji about inflation, we are flat for now but the Fed has signaled that they are willing to let some inflation take place in the near future.

My point is that there is more positive going on than we're hearing about.
Click to expand...

You need to work on your delivery there chief 👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: TNVOLNAVY, 82_VOL_83, ajvol01 and 2 others
#5
#5
AshG said:
No, I'm not trying to take a dump on the stock market gains. They're an important measure to consider. I'm also not trying to play down unemployment numbers. Things are looking better for many people because of it.

Why don't we talk equally about median income, jobs with health and retirement benefits, and income indexed to inflation as well? Median income has increased, but it's not tracking well against inflation. Many of the added jobs provide little or no benefits beyond a paycheck, which results in newly employed people at the bottom often having to work two jobs to cover basic needs.

So much of how we talk about the economy - the stock market - benefits shareholders rather than the bulk of the population. Why are we reticent to directly discuss the metrics that directly affect the largest number of people in the country?
Click to expand...
One thing would be historical precedence. I couldnt tell you what is good, what is better or worse. Wouldnt be difficult to fix.
Next is the stock market is easy to follow, a higher number is better than lower. While the same mostly applies to the other numbers you mention. But there is a natural cap, we will never reach 100% on jobs with benefits and working wages etc. So 50% may sound terrible but if the max is 75%, not terrible at all.

It's only going to be after major recessions that most new jobs have benefits. Because those are high value jobs. What you cant track are the people who are moving up to jobs with benefits. Because those arent new jobs. Or an unemployed getting employment.

And which benefit do you want to track? PTO? retirement/401k? Health? Numbers are different for each.
 
#6
#6
AshG said:
And that's exactly what I'm talking about. If we want to convince the naysayers that the economy is actually improving, why aren't those the metrics we're focusing on?

As for your laugh emoji about inflation, we are flat for now but the Fed has signaled that they are willing to let some inflation take place in the near future.

My point is that there is more positive going on than we're hearing about.
Click to expand...
You can lead a horse to water....
 
#7
#7
FLVOL69 said:
You need to work on your delivery there chief 👍
Click to expand...
I think in a way, he's right. The real problem here is that the MSM and the leftists want the populace barefoot and ignorant and therefore will not credit any accomplishments that Mr Trump has achieved.. and if they do, they credit Zero. The things they DO recognize as trending positive are then spun to increase the wealth envy gap. Ash misses the point that inflation is virtually non existent at this point, and that a little inflation is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
#8
#8
AshG said:
Many of the added jobs provide little or no benefits beyond a paycheck, which results in newly employed people at the bottom often having to work two jobs to cover basic needs.
Click to expand...
Curious. Do you see this as a problem? Or would it be better for all concerned if those people were sitting on ass cashing welfare checks instead?
 
#9
#9
You can spin any number to be either fantastic or horrible. As long as one person in a family has “good” benefits the balance of the workers in the family don’t need them. While my daughter was in college she got a job with benefits which ultimately caused nothing but problems.
One area that we need to encourage in this country is personal responsibility
75 years ago you went where you could make a living for your family..
 
  • Like
Reactions: tennvols77, LouderVol and 82_VOL_83
#10
#10
AshG said:
No, I'm not trying to take a dump on the stock market gains. They're an important measure to consider. I'm also not trying to play down unemployment numbers. Things are looking better for many people because of it.

Why don't we talk equally about median income, jobs with health and retirement benefits, and income indexed to inflation as well? Median income has increased, but it's not tracking well against inflation. Many of the added jobs provide little or no benefits beyond a paycheck, which results in newly employed people at the bottom often having to work two jobs to cover basic needs.

So much of how we talk about the economy - the stock market - benefits shareholders rather than the bulk of the population. Why are we reticent to directly discuss the metrics that directly affect the largest number of people in the country?
Click to expand...

Your post is in the macro so it deserves an answer in the macro and that is:

Historically speaking the economy as a whole is doing damn good. If this election is about the economy, Trump wins. I'll also add that historically speaking, Presidents only lose second terms if we're in a recession
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLVOL_79
#11
#11
SpaceCoastVol said:
Curious. Do you see this as a problem? Or would it be better for all concerned if those people were sitting on ass cashing welfare checks instead?
Click to expand...

I believe that 40 hours of work a week, even at the entry level, should be able to provide enough income for food, shelter, and basic medical care. In the cheapest city in the country to live in, Harlington, TX, that requires 40 hours a week at almost $11 per hour to meet the most basic of expenses without including any extras. That's well above minimum wage.

So yes, I see it as a problem, Putting individuals in a position where they have to deny themselves dignity and forgo the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in exchange for food, shelter, and basic medical care is neither humane nor American.

Now how do we go about doing this? That's the trillion dollar question. I do not believe in national minimum wage initiatives because they're divisive and ineffective one-size-fits-none solutions that do more harm than good. I have to set aside my Pollyanna beliefs that companies will do the moral and ethical thing for their employees; shareholders and dividend payments pretty much eliminate that option.

If you examine the data, there is a direct correlation between the increase in suicide and depression rates among low-wage earners and increased hours required to afford basic necessities. And while there are some really ****** human beings who want to work the system rather than experience the dignity of an honest day's labor, most people I've met in the soup kitchens and church lunches receiving our services want to do more with their lives than work 60 hours a week to make money for someone else and spend what little time they have left standing in indigent services lines.
 
#12
#12
The no benefits thing is bullsh!t. Almost every company offers retirement and medial benefits. And if they dont? You can have your own retirement benefit set up no matter who you work for! I've had a Roth IRA since I was 19. I haven't been able to contribute to the Roth IRA for several years now due to my income but it still grows..might be used for a house purchase in 18 years who knows. But every single person can have the same thing I had. Almost all employers also offer health insurance as well. Most people who complain they cant get it because of their job actually just don't want to contribute to the program and opt out. This is HUGE in the service industry.

Example: McDonald's offers a 401k with 6% or your pay matching, paternity leave, medical/vision insurance, and life insurance.

That being said..I think construction is the best economic indicator. I means more people have money to spend on housing and more businesses are expanding and hiring employees. Sadly, increasing debt is also a good indicator. Remember government DOES NOT want you to save money. They want you to spend and they want banks to loan, loan, loan!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#13
#13
AshG said:
I believe that 40 hours of work a week, even at the entry level, should be able to provide enough income for food, shelter, and basic medical care. In the cheapest city in the country to live in, Harlington, TX, that requires 40 hours a week at almost $11 per hour to meet the most basic of expenses without including any extras. That's well above minimum wage.

So yes, I see it as a problem, Putting individuals in a position where they have to deny themselves dignity and forgo the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in exchange for food, shelter, and basic medical care is neither humane nor American.

Now how do we go about doing this? That's the trillion dollar question. I do not believe in national minimum wage initiatives because they're divisive and ineffective one-size-fits-none solutions that do more harm than good. I have to set aside my Pollyanna beliefs that companies will do the moral and ethical thing for their employees; shareholders and dividend payments pretty much eliminate that option.

If you examine the data, there is a direct correlation between the increase in suicide and depression rates among low-wage earners and increased hours required to afford basic necessities. And while there are some really ****** human beings who want to work the system rather than experience the dignity of an honest day's labor, most people I've met in the soup kitchens and church lunches receiving our services want to do more with their lives than work 60 hours a week to make money for someone else and spend what little time they have left standing in indigent services lines.
Click to expand...

Fastfood joints around Atlanta here hire starting out at $11. Almost no one works at minimum wage for long outside of teenagers. My county hires Bus drivers at $25 an hour...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol and FLVOL69
#14
#14
FLVOL_79 said:
Fastfood joints around Atlanta here hire starting out at $11. Almost no one works at minimum wage for long outside of teenagers. My county hires Bus drivers at $25 an hour...
Click to expand...

Some people still think minimum wage jobs should support a family of four and live in a 3000 sq foot home. What part of “entry level” don’t they get??
 
  • Like
Reactions: 05_never_again, SpaceCoastVol, Rickyvol77 and 4 others
#16
#16
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from a financial counselor we all had to talk to when I joined the Air Force at 19..get a Roth IRA. I'm long beyond being able to contribute to mine..but everyone should open one as soon as they can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AshG
#19
#19
VolStrom said:
What did he exaggerate? Don't work at a crap job and expect to get a leather couch and big screen TV in your living room. People don't start at the top and work their way down.
Click to expand...
It comes from a misunderstanding of the phrase "pursuit of happiness." Emphasis is and always has been on the word pursuit. Many don't understand that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLVOL69
#21
#21
I said: food, shelter, basic medical care
Reponse: 3000 sq ft house, family of four, leather couch, cell phones for every family member.

Yes, I'm the one with issues.
 
#22
#22
FLVOL_79 said:
Fastfood joints around Atlanta here hire starting out at $11. Almost no one works at minimum wage for long outside of teenagers. My county hires Bus drivers at $25 an hour...
Click to expand...

One bedroom apartment in GA averages $821 per month. Groceries trend below the national average, while transportation costs are above the national average. Atlanta and the surrounding area jumps over over $1000 for a studio apartment.
 
#23
#23
AshG said:
One bedroom apartment in GA averages $821 per month. Groceries trend below the national average, while transportation costs are above the national average. Atlanta and the surrounding area jumps over over $1000 for a studio apartment.
Click to expand...
When I moved here I got a 1 bedroom with a garage in Peachtree City for $1700 a month. It all depends where you live.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLVOL69
#25
#25
FLVOL69 said:
You need to get out more often Chief
Click to expand...

My wife used to be a Habitat for Humanity candidate review team member and I used to help with homeless and indigent at one of the poorest UMC congregations in Hattiesburg, MS. I'm pretty familiar with some populations and their experiences. I also understand that you are too, and I'm not discounting your experiences.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top