Are we wrong about Banks and this defense?

[BigOrangeTrain]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

 

[WiseOlVol]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

Rewatching the game on Sunday, I was impressed with the Ds' tenacity. And they were in the right positions most of the game. Should have been able to track down the RB on the long run.

 

[Titans4Vols]

No one is right or wrong about him yet. The problem is trying to judge him before the talent issue is completely fixed. Outside of extremes like being all-time bad all around, Banks will always get through next season from me. Will be a few classes in, almost entirely "his guys", and should no longer have positions on the field where we're putting people who probably don't belong as starters at any SEC school, much less one trying to compete for an SEC title.

Defense has looked fine this year. Really good pass rush, still some left to be desired in pass coverage though.

 

[VolDaddy61]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

When the talent gets better, His Defense will look better. When certain position coaches get better the defense will get better. At this point in the season I believe this is who they are. His scheme seems sound and His Blitz Packages are creative. The next leap for this defense is getting more elite talent, and coaching.

 

[BruisedOrange]

From the time Heupel came and explained his offense, I've said that the corresponding defense would have to be hyper-aggressive, built more for creating turnovers and punts than the traditional "field position" or "bend-don't-break just keep them out of the end zone" defenses. I also insisted that, like the Peyton-led Colts offense, we wouldn't achieve championships until we had our equivalent of disrupters Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney on defense.

Last season, our deficiencies in the defensive line forced Banks to utilize our LBs to generate tackles for loss and needed QB pressures. But that further exposed our secondary, especially in long third down attempts. This season, we have the personnel to shut down the run and pressure the passer without blitzing.

If I'm still correct about Heupel's defensive philosophy (which Banks is responsible for developing and fleshing out) then for Heupel, the most important defensive stats would be:
- how many points did the defense yield,
- how many opponent red zone possessions yielded field goals instead of touchdowns, and
- how many more offensive possessions did we have than our opponent.

If our defense generates just one extra possession for our offense, then even in a shootout, we have the opportunity to win. This philosophy also means that the end and beginning of each half has an impact on our defensive tactics.

Beamer understood that, and was willing to gameplan possibly risky fake punts to prevent our defense from generating more possessions for our offense.

All this, of course, IMHO.

 

[Deebowbear]

Rewatching the game on Sunday, I was impressed with the Ds' tenacity. And they were in the right positions most of the game. Should have been able to track down the RB on the long run.

If the defense is was being consistent I would say yes but they aren’t. For one gators should not have scored that many points on us but against cocks they did a good job

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Short answer: yes.

Those among us who have spent the past two to three years crapping on Tim Banks, yes. You were dead wrong.

All the man needed was some time.

The defense will continue to get better. Stronger. Faster. More threatening.

Listen, a head coach as smart as Josh Heupel, he's not going to bring in any coordinator who isn't also ready to coach at an elite level. He doesn't have to, and he's not going to.

So even those who didn't know Tim Banks, didn't trust him, you shoulda trusted Josh Heupel's judgment.

Yep. Totally wrong.

Go Vols!


p.s. You can extend that to Willie Martinez, too. Those of us who don't know wtf we're talking about in coaching elite college football (that's most of us), we ought to be trusting Heupel's judgment instead of whining every time a player doesn't turn around to track the incoming ball.

 

[Vol865]

I might go along with this if I didn't watch the Florida game. We had better players than everyone else. We need those performances against teams with equal or better talent

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

"Most of us had Rattler shredding our defense"

That's why most are just fans

 

[CNCVol88]

If the defense is was being consistent I would say yes but they aren’t. For one gators should not have scored that many points on us but against cocks they did a good job

This has more to do with total team mentality on the road. They still struggle in truly hostile environments. That's the next step huepel and co will have to take.

 

[Orange931]

It’s mostly been the DL being disruptive. Garner should get the most props at this point.

 

[VOLnMiami]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

When I watch the replay of that Florida game it makes me absolutely sick to see them running and throwing all over that defense and they did at will...No We haven't been wrong about Banks, He has taken advantage of playing bad teams early and were enough to pad some stats but remember Austin Peay?...Yeah they ran up and down on us too...I am not sold on Banks at all...Sorry just my opinion.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

When I watch the replay of that Florida game it makes me absolutely sick to see them running and throwing all over that defense and they did at will...No We haven't been wrong about Banks, He has taken advantage of playing bad teams early and were enough to pad some stats but remember Austin Peay?...Yeah they ran up and down on us too...I am not sold on Banks at all...Sorry just my opinion.

The truth is most don't really know. So yes, at this point, you're wrong thinking you're right about him

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

I might go along with this if I didn't watch the Florida game. We had better players than everyone else. We need those performances against teams with equal or better talent

That’s just incorrect. Our average talent is better than Florida. That doesn’t mean “we had better players than everyone else”. Florida had one good quarter. They beat us by getting Herring (starting his first big game) to bite on motion fakes, and make the wrong calls. We did not bring a safety up to cover the motion receiver or shift to cover the RB or tight end on double motion. They took away our pass rush by only doing short drops. We adjusted at halftime and did fine. We had young players at key positions and Napier had a great gameplan. On a neutral field today, we’d beat Florida 4 of 4 times. In the Swamp, with a brand new MLB, early in the year, oh well. We had a bad quarter. Our D talent is good, but not great. We play above that talent. As our LBs get better and young DBs develop, we will be a good defense. Our ranking in every category is very good compared to our talent.

 

[VOLnMiami]

The truth is most don't really know. So yes, at this point, you're wrong thinking you're right about him

No I don't think so but hey thats your opinion.

 

[Mccage]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

Some of us knew it was going to take some time. Pressure always makes for a good secondary. We need a couple of pieces and we’re putting the them in place. I wouldn’t swap our front 7 to anyone.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I have been an out spoken critic of Banks and this defense as a whole. So have many others. I am still out on Martinez although the DBs have looked a little better. But back to Banks. Could we be wrong? So through 5 games we are 4-1. Here are our rankings in the country in defense.

Total defense: (28th) (6th in the SEC)
3rd down defense: (26th) (4th in the SEC)
4th down defense: (14th) (3rd in the SEC)
First down defense: (25th) (4th in the SEC)
Passing yards allowed: (30th) (5th in the SEC)
Red zone defense: (49th) (5th in the SEC)
Rush defense: (40th) (7th in the SEC)
Scoring defense: (31st) (6th in the SEC)
Team Pass Efficiency Defense: (36th) (5th SEC)
Tackles for loss: (3rd) (#1 SEC)
Sacks (tied for 3rd) (#1 SEC)

I realize that we really haven’t played anyone but many teams ahead of us have played equally easy schedules or even worse. For example Kentucky. Now they are ahead of us in many defensive categories. But they have played an easier schedule than we have.

So what does everyone think? Now I am not saying we are an elite defense by any stretch. But could it be that our defame is improving? I am pretty sure most of us had Rattler shredding our defense. Like him or hate him, he was playing as well as anyone and we stifled him. There is a strong possibility that Banks is improving.

I think Banks is doing fine with what he’s had to work with. I do think the Martinez concerns are valid. Wish we could get an elite DB coach.

 

[SpookyAction]

.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

No I don't think so but hey thats your opinion.

That's exponentially closer to the truth than yours

 

[The Original Fade]

I think the criticism comes from looking utterly lost on D vs Florida

 

[Vol865]

That’s just incorrect. Our average talent is better than Florida. That doesn’t mean “we had better players than everyone else”. Florida had one good quarter. They beat us by getting Herring (starting his first big game) to bite on motion fakes, and make the wrong calls. We did not bring a safety up to cover the motion receiver or shift to cover the RB or tight end on double motion. They took away our pass rush by only doing short drops. We adjusted at halftime and did fine. We had young players at key positions and Napier had a great gameplan. On a neutral field today, we’d beat Florida 4 of 4 times. In the Swamp, with a brand new MLB, early in the year, oh well. We had a bad quarter. Our D talent is good, but not great. We play above that talent. As our LBs get better and young DBs develop, we will be a good defense. Our ranking in every category is very good compared to our talent.

Taking a half to tell a LB to bump out or a safety to roll down is way too long. We have better players than SCar and UVA. The other 2 teams we beat aren't even worth mentioning. Florida is the most talented team we played. There were other factors to us losing but the defense played a bad 1st half as a whole and it showed on the scoreboard in the 1 qtr and it was due to Banks not being able to make a simple adjustment on the fly.

 

[Cartervol]

That was the best the defense has looked under Banks. I'll eat a little crow with some hot sauce. They were more physical than Carolina but we all knew Carolina's Oline was suspect. They took care of business. Better teams on the horizon.. That was the version of Tennessee they needed to be this year. Hopefully they keep it up. A&M will challenge them at the LOS because unlike Carolina they're really good up front..

 

[VOLINVONORE]

If the defense is was being consistent I would say yes but they aren’t. For one gators should not have scored that many points on us but against cocks they did a good job

The defense has improved each year under Banks. Most on this board just doesn't realize how void we were/are of talent on the defensive side of the ball. We have and are recruiting some outstanding players for our defense. We will continue to improve as the talent increases and the players gain experience. Time to appreciated the progress being made.

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

I've been on the fence about him but the defense has looked good so far with the exception of one half against Florida and some poor secondary play. The next few games are going to be the real challenge.

 

[EZE]

Short answer: yes.

Those among us who have spent the past two to three years crapping on Tim Banks, yes. You were dead wrong.

All the man needed was some time.

The defense will continue to get better. Stronger. Faster. More threatening.

Listen, a head coach as smart as Josh Heupel, he's not going to bring in any coordinator who isn't also ready to coach at an elite level. He doesn't have to, and he's not going to.

So even those who didn't know Tim Banks, didn't trust him, you shoulda trusted Josh Heupel's judgment.

Yep. Totally wrong.

Go Vols!


p.s. You can extend that to Willie Martinez, too. Those of us who don't know wtf we're talking about in coaching elite college football (that's most of us), we ought to be trusting Heupel's judgment instead of whining every time a player doesn't turn around to track the incoming ball.

I don’t see how you can make this assertion so conclusively. To me, the jury is still out on him either way.

Yes, there have been some good games. But you cannot deny that there have been some stinkers (Bama, SC and Gl). And what I didn’t like about the stinkers was the passivity of the schemes.

Banks’ defenses are much better when they are aggressive.

I’m not ready to fire him yet. Because if he can learn some lessons from those stinkers, and add more talent, he could become a consistently good DC.

But if he continues to roll out that pillowy soft zone every few games, we will continue to see similar results.