Arizona Election Audit

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#4,958
#4,958
VolinWayne said:
Not sure how I feel about the "deal" that was made. I wonder who the Special Master will be?? I'm assuming this probably will push the report back another week or 2??


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But it keeps the equipment out of the hands of the compromised Cyber Ninjas and hopefully allows an experienced, impartial (at least outwardly) security company to evaluate the equipment.
 
#4,959
#4,959
AshG said:
But it keeps the equipment out of the hands of the compromised Cyber Ninjas and hopefully allows an experienced, impartial (at least outwardly) security company to evaluate the equipment.
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The thing is nobody seems to really know much about that company or even care; they are just offended by the name. To some extent I agree, but there's always a chance that they really live up to the hype.
 
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#4,960
#4,960
AM64 said:
The thing is nobody seems to really know much about that company or even care; they are just offended by the name. To some extent I agree, but there's always a chance that they really live up to the hype.
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I don't care about the name. I just care that the owner was all over social media calling the election a scam and stanning for Trump prior to CN being selected for the process.
 
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#4,961
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AM64 said:
The thing is nobody seems to really know much about that company or even care; they are just offended by the name. To some extent I agree, but there's always a chance that they really live up to the hype.
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I know enough to know that the principal of the company that was hired to do an independent audit was previously a vocal proponent of the idea that the election was stolen.
 
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#4,962
#4,962
AshG said:
I don't care about the name. I just care that the owner was all over social media calling the election a scam and stanning for Trump prior to CN being selected for the process.
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clarksvol00 said:
I know enough to know that the principal of the company that was hired to do an independent audit was previously a vocal proponent of the idea that the election was stolen.
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So do you have problems with one candidate claiming another is incompetent or a liar? Do you have problems with marketing types claiming negatives about competitors? If we agreed the election was all good, then what would be the impetus to review it? Do you think challengers who claim incumbents have acted improperly shouldn't be elected or even allowed to run for office? I think acting on preconceived notions is not a great way to do things, but that is almost always the way the criminal justice system operates; are you both saying that the justice reeks of bias and we are doing that all wrong, too?

I've spent little time actually following what's happening in AZ - basically what's presented here. There seems to be little objectivity in the reporting, but Cyber Ninjas are apparently only one part of the auditing process, and not necessarily running the show. In fact, without the hardware being made available, they seem to be relegated to a backup role. Most computer programmers or analysist can actually count without removing their shoes, and it seems there is plenty of observation just in case someone is inclined to make 1+1=3.
 
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#4,963
AM64 said:
So do you have problems with one candidate claiming another is incompetent or a liar? Do you have problems with marketing types claiming negatives about competitors? If we agreed the election was all good, then what would be the impetus to review it? Do you think challengers who claim incumbents have acted improperly shouldn't be elected or even allowed to run for office? I think acting on preconceived notions is not a great way to do things, but that is almost always the way the criminal justice system operates; are you both saying that the justice reeks of bias and we are doing that all wrong, too?

I've spent little time actually following what's happening in AZ - basically what's presented here. There seems to be little objectivity in the reporting, but Cyber Ninjas are apparently only one part of the auditing process, and not necessarily running the show. In fact, without the hardware being made available, they seem to be relegated to a backup role. Most computer programmers or analysist can actually count without removing their shoes, and it seems there is plenty of observation just in case someone is inclined to make 1+1=3.
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You wouldn't have thought twice about the election results if Trump wouldn't have cried fraud
 
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AM64 said:
So do you have problems with one candidate claiming another is incompetent or a liar? Do you have problems with marketing types claiming negatives about competitors? If we agreed the election was all good, then what would be the impetus to review it? Do you think challengers who claim incumbents have acted improperly shouldn't be elected or even allowed to run for office? I think acting on preconceived notions is not a great way to do things, but that is almost always the way the criminal justice system operates; are you both saying that the justice reeks of bias and we are doing that all wrong, too?

I've spent little time actually following what's happening in AZ - basically what's presented here. There seems to be little objectivity in the reporting, but Cyber Ninjas are apparently only one part of the auditing process, and not necessarily running the show. In fact, without the hardware being made available, they seem to be relegated to a backup role. Most computer programmers or analysist can actually count without removing their shoes, and it seems there is plenty of observation just in case someone is inclined to make 1+1=3.
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I have a problem with hiring somebody who has already stated a bias for a position as an independent auditor.
 
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#4,965
#4,965
I don't understand the full-throated defense of Cyber Ninja from the "it's not about Trump crowd." If this was simply an exercise in getting the truth why would you want hire someone who has already admitted bias toward a certain outcome?
 
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#4,966
clarksvol00 said:
I have a problem with hiring somebody who has already stated a bias for a position as an independent auditor.
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Who actually is an independent auditor? Somebody always pays for an audit. Do you think that means every audit has automatic bias? I spent years investigating problems in nuclear plants as an employee of the manufacturer and later as an employee of power producer. I know who signed my paycheck; it didn't change how I did the job, and I don't think I'm an anomaly. Times have changed since I retired, so I suppose it's possible that people no longer feel that way ... I hope not.
 
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AM64 said:
Who actually is an independent auditor? Somebody always pays for an audit. Do you think that means every audit has automatic bias? I spent years investigating problems in nuclear plants as an employee of the manufacturer and later as an employee of power producer. I know who signed my paycheck; it didn't change how I did the job, and I don't think I'm an anomaly. Times have changed since I retired, so I suppose it's possible that people no longer feel that way ... I hope not.
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I know a guy that took a position that the election was stolen before he started auditing is not an independent auditor.

As for getting paid, Ive been on boards for non-profits in the past and we paid CPAs to do audits as a matter of course. We didnt want a problem to exist, but if the staff was stealing money or something like that, we sure wanted it to be discovered because the board members could get in trouble. But we sure wouldn't come in and hire somebody who said they knew the result before they started.
 
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#4,968
clarksvol00 said:
I know a guy that took a position that the election was stolen before he started auditing is not an independent auditor.

As for getting paid, Ive been on boards for non-profits in the past and we paid CPAs to do audits as a matter of course. We didnt want a problem to exist, but if the staff was stealing money or something like that, we sure wanted it to be discovered because the board members could get in trouble. But we sure wouldn't come in and hire somebody who said they knew the result before they started.
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We'll just disagree on this point. I certainly believe that someone can think something is wrong without believing that the person will perjure himself to prove wrongdoing. Sometimes the best advocates are those who believe one thing and become convinced by fact that the other is true. Nothing wrong with expecting to find fault and finding your expectations were off base. Practice seems to show that people who are biased and manage to manipulate fact their way are in positions of legitimate power ... that's not an auditor unless perhaps IRS or FBI is attached to the title.

Also history has many examples of someone who thought something wasn't right, had never been uncovered by anyone else, but that someone had the persistence to see through the superficial. Those are the people who bring down Madoffs and others in this world.
 
#4,969
#4,969
AM64 said:
We'll just disagree on this point. I certainly believe that someone can think something is wrong without believing that the person will perjure himself to prove wrongdoing. Sometimes the best advocates are those who believe one thing and become convinced by fact that the other is true. Nothing wrong with expecting to find fault and finding your expectations were off base. Practice seems to show that people who are biased and manage to manipulate fact their way are in positions of legitimate power ... that's not an auditor unless perhaps IRS or FBI is attached to the title.

Also history has many examples of someone who thought something wasn't right, had never been uncovered by anyone else, but that someone had the persistence to see through the superficial. Those are the people who bring down Madoffs and others in this world.
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We can probably agree that AZ Senate hired the guy that gave them the best chance to have a report saying there was fraud
 
#4,970
#4,970
clarksvol00 said:
We can probably agree that AZ Senate hired the guy that gave them the best chance to have a report saying there was fraud
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Unless the guy was an advocate - a lawyer, probably not. As I recall there are two accounting firms and Cyber Ninjas involved? I think the electronic issue stinks to high heaven and have no problem with someone else thinking the same. A day or two into basic programming and people could write a program to take a one and add it to a subtotal and repeat. For a company to claim that their vote counting SW is proprietary is downright offensive.

My company discussed hiring an outside firm to do some pressure testing ... that involves over pressuring of pressure vessels and/or piping and evaluating the system's ability to hold pressure for an extended time. This company proposed using a "proprietary test program" with lower pressure and acoustically monitoring boundaries to show that the leak (if any) was through a valve or blocking flange rather than a compromised pressure boundary (like a crack). I hit the roof - I wasn't responsible for pressure testing, but I did have a lot of expertise in acoustic monitoring to include leaks through valves. We sent them away over the objections of a number of their fans. A few years later I asked someone at another nuclear utility how they worked out. After fuming for a while, he told me they were fined by the NRC, their testing invalidated, and they had to redo all their pressure testing. That's the kind of class I put the election system manufacturers in ... professional con men or hucksters.
 
#4,971
#4,971
AM64 said:
Unless the guy was an advocate - a lawyer, probably not. As I recall there are two accounting firms and Cyber Ninjas involved? I think the electronic issue stinks to high heaven and have no problem with someone else thinking the same. A day or two into basic programming and people could write a program to take a one and add it to a subtotal and repeat. For a company to claim that their vote counting SW is proprietary is downright offensive.

My company discussed hiring an outside firm to do some pressure testing ... that involves over pressuring of pressure vessels and/or piping and evaluating the system's ability to hold pressure for an extended time. This company proposed using a "proprietary test program" with lower pressure and acoustically monitoring boundaries to show that the leak (if any) was through a valve or blocking flange rather than a compromised pressure boundary (like a crack). I hit the roof - I wasn't responsible for pressure testing, but I did have a lot of expertise in acoustic monitoring to include leaks through valves. We sent them away over the objections of a number of their fans. A few years later I asked someone at another nuclear utility how they worked out. After fuming for a while, he told me they were fined by the NRC, their testing invalidated, and they had to redo all their pressure testing. That's the kind of class I put the election system manufacturers in ... professional con men or hucksters.
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I'm pretty sure this guy is worse than a paid advocate like a lawyer. At least a lawyer and the people who hire him acknowledge he's working towards a stated goal.
 
#4,972
#4,972
USAFgolferVol said:
You wouldn't have thought twice about the election results if Trump wouldn't have cried fraud
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Let’s break this down…..man campaigns from his basement, has rallies where throngs show up by the twos, mass mail out balloting, and 99% of the mail out ballots came back for a man that doesn’t know where the hell he’s at most of the time. Yeah, seems legit to me.
 
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CINCYVOL said:
Let’s break this down…..man campaigns from his basement, has rallies where throngs show up by the twos, mass mail out balloting, and 99% of the mail out ballots came back for a man that doesn’t know where the hell he’s at most of the time. Yeah, seems legit to me.
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You’re surprised mail in ballots didn’t support the candidate that told his supporters they weren’t safe and not to use them, though he voted by mail.

I don’t understand why republicans put so much stock in the size of the trump rallies. Trump has a cult like following that the majority of Americans find creepy.
 
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#4,974
#4,974
CINCYVOL said:
Let’s break this down…..man campaigns from his basement, has rallies where throngs show up by the twos, mass mail out balloting, and 99% of the mail out ballots came back for a man that doesn’t know where the hell he’s at most of the time. Yeah, seems legit to me.
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Are you aware of the audit Trump conducted on the 2016 election?
 
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