Armani Moore

#27
#27
bleedingTNorange said:
I get what you're saying and I tend to agree with the majority of it. But, if Goldens biggest issue is his quickness then he's doing alright. You say he can't be all sec as a 1 in your opinion, but I'd disagree. If quickness is keeping him from being a great defender, but the rest of his game is top notch, the defense against the 1 in every 5 quick guards won't keep him off of all sec.

Also, maybe this is where that zone defense CCM was talking about can be thrown in at times to help out golden. Even by playing it for 5 minutes each half, only against quick guards, that right away would help spare trae some IMO.

Also, I do believe that you can teach quickness to a certain extent. I think golden gained too much muscle last year, and iirc he actually gained weight this off season because of the added muscle. I believe doing a lot of work in the offseason and he could definitely become quicker. Also, you don't have to be as quick as the person you're defending in order to play D on them. Perfect example is skylar mcbee. He is probably slower than 99% of the players he faces, but he plays smart defense and understands the game and how to use angles among other things defensively to compensate for the difference in speed.

I was all for adding a PG so we could slide trae, but it wasn't because of my uncertainty about trae. It was more because of how weak the 2 spot is IMO, and that it would've improved greatly. Unfortunately we were unable to land another PG, so it will be Traes spot again which I'm more than comfortable with. I think he'll improve from last year, which he was a top 3 SEC PG, and once again be one of the best PGs in the SEC.
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Maybe the zone (if used) will help keep him fresh at the end of the game. But not being quick enough to keep up with smaller guards causes other issues than just not being quick. You could see Golden was completely exhausted most of the time at the end of a game. It takes him a lot more energy to keep up with his defenders. Thus, the other teams guards blow by him and score at the end of games and Trae makes bad decision or can't play to his potential ala PITT, MSU, etc... You can be a smart defender that can keep a quicker player in front of you, but eventually it will catch up to you if you are chasing him for 30+ minutes.

I think if Golden played the 2 with his offensive numbers he at least gets honorable mention for all SEC this past year. He didn't get playing pg.
 
#28
#28
johnnybravo said:
Maybe the zone (if used) will help keep him fresh at the end of the game. But not being quick enough to keep up with smaller guards causes other issues than just not being quick. You could see Golden was completely exhausted most of the time at the end of a game. It takes him a lot more energy to keep up with his defenders. Thus, the other teams guards blow by him and score at the end of games and Trae makes bad decision or can't play to his potential ala PITT, MSU, etc... You can be a smart defender that can keep a quicker player in front of you, but eventually it will catch up to you if you are chasing him for 30+ minutes.

I think if Golden played the 2 with his offensive numbers he at least gets honorable mention for all SEC this past year. He didn't get playing pg.
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In all fairness the mtsu issue was an injury not because he was gassed. Also, I did say he needs to improve his endurance and quickness in the offseason. If he improves those, he won't be as gassed at the end of games. As I said, he gained a lot of muscle this last off season and actually gained weight. I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more conditioned Golden at the start of next season. Also, with Richardson playing point in these workouts, and the addition of Moore golden will no longer be the only option. So you can now take out golden for breathers without having to throw him right back in because nobody else could handle the point.

I don't see him making all sec either way may year really, I don't think position effected him. If he puts up another sold year though I'd expect to see some recognition. Infact, I'm betting he'll probably be pre season 2nd team all sec, JMO.
 
#29
#29
bleedingTNorange said:
In all fairness the mtsu issue was an injury not because he was gassed. Also, I did say he needs to improve his endurance and quickness in the offseason. If he improves those, he won't be as gassed at the end of games. As I said, he gained a lot of muscle this last off season and actually gained weight. I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more conditioned Golden at the start of next season. Also, with Richardson playing point in these workouts, and the addition of Moore golden will no longer be the only option. So you can now take out golden for breathers without having to throw him right back in because nobody else could handle the point.

I don't see him making all sec either way may year really, I don't think position effected him. If he puts up another sold year though I'd expect to see some recognition. Infact, I'm betting he'll probably be pre season 2nd team all sec, JMO.
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Actually, Trae lost a bunch of weight coming into last season. He didn't gain weight. Almost 20 pounds. So he was extremely conditioned to start the 2011 / 12 season.
 
#30
#30
johnnybravo said:
Actually, Trae lost a bunch of weight coming into last season. He didn't gain weight. Almost 20 pounds. So he was extremely conditioned to start the 2011 / 12 season.
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Actually no you're wrong, as I said trae ACTUALLY gained weight from last season to this season.

Freshman: 6'1" 207
http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/roster/10-11-roster.html


Sophomore: 6'1" 209
http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/roster/11-12-roster.html
 
#31
#31
bleedingTNorange said:
Actually no you're wrong, as I said trae ACTUALLY gained weight from last season to this season.

Freshman: 6'1" 207
University of Tennessee Athletics: Men's Basketball


Sophomore: 6'1" 209
University of Tennessee Athletics: Men's Basketball
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No actually you are wrong. Trae lost 17 pounds between the end of his Freshman year to the beginning of last year his Sophmore year.

Trae Golden lost 17 pounds cutting out fried foods - YouTube

This was all well documented on how inshape golden was coming into last season and how much weight he lost over the summer.
 
#32
#32
johnnybravo said:
No actually you are wrong. Trae lost 17 pounds between the end of his Freshman year to the beginning of last year his Sophmore year.

Trae Golden lost 17 pounds cutting out fried foods - YouTube

This was all well documented on how inshape golden was coming into last season and how much weight he lost over the summer.
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Correct he lost weight during the summe while at home, thus why he's talking about being at home. Then when they were back, he transformed his body in workouts and really added a lot of muscle under new coachs workouts.

When it came time for weigh ins, at the beginning on the season, trae weighed in at 209. I don't care that he lost weight during the summer, he added it right back by gaining muscle.

Correct it was well documented on how much more cut he was etc etc, but what many failed to realize was that by adding the muscle in replacement of fat, he was now heavier.

Also possible that golden did lose 17 lbs but was still heavier. He weighed in 207 beginning of freshman season, maybe he gained 20lbs by end of season so was 227. He then loses 17 lbs in the off season making him 210. So he lost weight in the off season, but still is heavier than he was heading into freshman season.
 
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#33
#33
Maybe you have some inside info and have seen him on scales. UTs media guides and official roster have him at 207 beginning freshman year, and 209 beginning sophomore year. That's what I'm going off of.

I get he talks about losing weight, but as I said 1. He could've gained it back in fall workouts 2. Maybe he was heavier(227) to begin with and so losing 17 lbs put him around 210.
 
#34
#34
bleedingTNorange said:
No you're wrong.

Correct he lost weight during the summe while at home, thus why he's talking about being at home. Then when they were back, he transformed his body in workouts and really added a lot of muscle under new coachs workouts.

When it came time for weigh ins, at the beginning on the season, trae weighed in at 209. I don't care that he lost weight during the summer, he added it right back by gaining muscle.

Correct it was well documented on how much more cut he was etc etc, but what many failed to realize was that by adding the muscle in replacement of fat, he was now heavier.

Also possible that golden did lose 17 lbs but was still heavier. He weighed in 207 beginning of freshman season, maybe he gained 20lbs by end of season so was 227. He then loses 17 lbs in the off season making him 210. So he lost weight in the off season, but still is heavier than he was heading into freshman season.
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The roster weight and height on UTsports is put out about a month before the season starts. 207 was what they listed Trae weighing when he started school his Freshman year. He had bulked up some before the end of the Freshman season. I'm just going by what Trae said himself. He said he lost 17 pounds coming into last season and that he transformed his body. He didn't say he lost 17 pounds and then gained it all back in muscle. He said that he lost 17 pounds coming into the season so he could be faster and quicker.

University of Tennessee Athletics: Men's Basketball
 
#35
#35
johnnybravo said:
The roster weight and height on UTsports is put out about a month before the season starts. 207 was what they listed Trae weighing when he started school his Freshman year. He had bulked up some before the end of the Freshman season. I'm just going by what Trae said himself. He said he lost 17 pounds coming into last season and that he transformed his body. He didn't say he lost 17 pounds and then gained it all back in muscle. He said that he lost 17 pounds coming into the season so he could be faster and quicker.

University of Tennessee Athletics: Men's Basketball
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So you're agreeing what I said was possible, he may have bulked up during freshman year?

He weighed in at 207, say he gained 20 lbs through the year, so he's 227 at seasons end. Goes home eat good, runs a lot and loses 17 pounds making him 210 and weighs in at 209 for sophomore season. You're agreeing that thats very possible?
 
#36
#36
bleedingTNorange said:
So you're agreeing what I said was possible, he may have bulked up during freshman year?

He weighed in at 207, say he gained 20 lbs through the year, so he's 227 at seasons end. Goes home eat good, runs a lot and loses 17 pounds making him 210 and weighs in at 209 for sophomore season. You're agreeing that thats very possible?
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No, I'm not agreeing with you at all. You said that he went home for the summer and lost 17 pounds during the off season and then gained 20 pounds of muscle between coming back to school and the beginning of the year when somehow he weighed 209. The number 209 means nothing. The artical said that he came in the season at 195. You can't ever believe weight and heights on any athlete. They had Lofton listed at 6'1" and I had a good 4 inches when side by side on him and I'm 6'2".
 
#37
#37
johnnybravo said:
No, I'm not agreeing with you at all. You said that he went home for the summer and lost 17 pounds during the off season and then gained 20 pounds of muscle between coming back to school and the beginning of the year when somehow he weighed 209. The number 209 means nothing. The artical said that he came in the season at 195. You can't ever believe weight and heights on any athlete. They had Lofton listed at 6'1" and I had a good 4 inches when side by side on him and I'm 6'2".
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I also said, it's possible that he beefed up to around 227 his freshman year. Then in the offseason lost the 17lbs he spoke of, and weighed in at 209.

I'm going off that he weighed truly 209, I guess you're saying he truly weighed 195. That's the disparity. I've been going off the assumption that his weight on the roster was right, if he was actually 15lbs lighter than they listed then ok.
 
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#38
#38
bleedingTNorange said:
I also said, it's possible that he beefed up to around 227 his freshman year. Then in the offseason lost the 17lbs he spoke of, and weighed in at 209.

I'm going off that he weighed truly 209, I guess you're saying he truly weighed 195. That's the disparity. I've been going off the assumption that his weight on the roster was right, if he was actually 15lbs lighter than they listed then ok.
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Well, I do not believe that he was out of shape and will come into any better shape than he did this past year. If he lost 17 pounds, then he was very conditioned. He said he worked extremely hard to improve his speed and quickness. At 195, I do not seeing him losing any more weight to improve his quickness.
 
#39
#39
johnnybravo said:
Well, I do not believe that he was out of shape and will come into any better shape than he did this past year. If he lost 17 pounds, then he was very conditioned. He said he worked extremely hard to improve his speed and quickness. At 195, I do not seeing him losing any more weight to improve his quickness.
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If he's 195 I agree, if he's closer to the listed weight of 209 I disagree. I suppose theirs no real way of either of us knowing.

I will say, he can better his endurance though, that's something that can always be improved. His quickness may not be able to, but as I said using zone, and golden becoming smarter can help with that. He can definitely better his endurance though.
 
#40
#40
Listed weights and heights are never accurate. They have Stokes listed at 250 and he came in weighing around 275. Golden said himself in the link I provided that he came in the season at 195 pounds. Not 209. Tyler Summit at 6'1" .... really?
 
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#41
#41
johnnybravo said:
Listed weights and heights are never accurate. They have Stokes listed at 250 and he came in weighing around 275. Golden said himself in the link I provided that he came in the season at 195 pounds. Not 209. Tyler Summit at 6'1" .... really?
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Summit is actually atleast 6'1". I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with him and he's about an inch on me and I'm 6'.

As far as stokes, they're going off his listed weight is my guess from summer. They probably didn't actually do a weigh in on him.

As I said, if golden is 195 then correct I doubt he has much more to improve on body wise. I still say that his endurance could improve which would help him out. Combine that with adding a zone, plus viable backup options, and Golden shouldn't be getting gassed next year. So as a result, should cut down the late game lapses he suffered from last year on both ends of the court.

Personally, I'm expecting a great year from golden and am excited to see how he progresses under the coaching staff. I fully expect a preseason all sec mention, and after the year all sec recognition again. That should hopefully put much of hate on golden to rest. He was a top 3 SEC PG last year and I have no reason to think he won't improve atleast a little on that.
 
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#42
#42
So... Armani Moore seems like he could be a good prospect. How much does he weigh now?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#44
#44
bleedingTNorange said:
Summit is actually atleast 6'1". I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with him and he's about an inch on me and I'm 6'.

As far as stokes, they're going off his listed weight is my guess from summer. They probably didn't actually do a weigh in on him.

As I said, if golden is 195 then correct I doubt he has much more to improve on body wise. I still say that his endurance could improve which would help him out. Combine that with adding a zone, plus viable backup options, and Golden shouldn't be getting gassed next year. So as a result, should cut down the late game lapses he suffered from last year on both ends of the court.

Personally, I'm expecting a great year from golden and am excited to see how he progresses under the coaching staff. I fully expect a preseason all sec mention, and after the year all sec recognition again. That should hopefully put much of hate on golden to rest. He was a top 3 SEC PG last year and I have no reason to think he won't improve atleast a little on that.
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I'm not dogging Golden at all, but I don't think he was top 3 in SEC at all. Maybe top 5. I would at least have Bost, Teague, Walker, and Tinsley in front of him. Possibly, Young and Robinson. More like the middle of the pack, IMO than top 3. Just the half dozen games that he lost us in the last minute of play would keep him out of the top 3.
 
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#45
#45
johnnybravo said:
No, I'm not agreeing with you at all. You said that he went home for the summer and lost 17 pounds during the off season and then gained 20 pounds of muscle between coming back to school and the beginning of the year when somehow he weighed 209. The number 209 means nothing. The artical said that he came in the season at 195. You can't ever believe weight and heights on any athlete. They had Lofton listed at 6'1" and I had a good 4 inches when side by side on him and I'm 6'2".
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Don't bother bro.

This one will argue with an inanimate object. He'll lose, but he'll do it for hours.
 
#49
#49
Sooooo... Armani Moore seems to be a nice prospect. If he loses/gains 15 lbs., will he be a contributor?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#50
#50
Chris4Vols22 said:
It's not going to be Moore, so just enjoy Golden while we still have him. He had a great season at point considering his experience. He has nowhere to go but up, and with this staff, you can expect great things from GOLDEN RUNNING THE POINT FOR THE NEXT 2 SEASONS!!

GO GOLDEN BOY AT PG FOR 2 MORE YEARS!!! WOOOOOOOOO!!!!
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golden is a good maybe great player... bobby hurley was a little rough around the edges as a sophomore too
 
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