At this point I hope UT misses the tournament

#1
B

bballnut90

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
270
Likes
703
#1
I posted this on another board, but as a long time fan of the program and women's basketball, my thoughts are below:

I personally don't think Tennessee should be a tourney team. They are in 9th place in the SEC, 7-7 in conference and 16-11 overall. Their best wins on the season are:

Oregon State: 23-3, 1st place in PAC-12
Syracuse: 21-6, 11-3 in ACC
Chattanooga: 20-7 overall. Lost by 2 to Tennessee, 48 to UCONN, 43 to Stanford and 28 to South Florida.
Auburn: 18-8 overall, 8-5 in SEC play
Missouri: 20-6 overall, 7-6 in SEC play

Note how ALL of these wins happened early in the season. The most recent "good" win was against Auburn on January 10th. If I'm on the committee, I'd place significantly lower emphasis on the wins over Syracuse and Oregon State because they happened so early in the year, and greater emphasis on their recent losses.

They have steadily declined as the season continues and are seriously tanking as the end of the year approaches. After winning their first 3 games separated by 5 or less, they have now lost 6 in a row decided by 5 points or less. Multiple times they have blown late 4th quarter leads. Today's was utterly ridiculous. 4 missed free throws in the last minute, leaving your worst free throw shooter in the game late, fouling the opposing team 80 feet from the basket with 3 seconds left, etc. Many UT fans and myself hope they don't get in at this point in an effort to get rid of Warlick.

Mind you, this this is a team that has:
2013 #1 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2013 #3 overall recruit, 2014 NFOY at other program
2012 #5 overall recruit, 2013 NFOY by some media outlets
2014 #6 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #12 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #21 recruit, 2014 All SEC Freshman team
2014 #28 recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #42 recruit, McDonald's AA

Compare this to #3 Notre Dame when you look at active players on their roster:
2014 #2 overall recruit, 2014 ACC FOY
2015 #10 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #18 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #21 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #26 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #33 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #39 overall recruit

Or #2 South Carolina
2014 #1 overall recruit, 2014 SEC FOY
2014 #7 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #28 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #35 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2012 #40 overall recruit
2012 #46 overall recruit

Looking at this blindly, everyone would pick Tennessee's lineup. Holly has under-performed in her ability to develop talent, under-performed in her ability to build a cohesive team, under-performed in her ability to get players to buy into her system, and under-performed in her in game coaching ability. Plus, she has no one on deck for 2016 and 2017. Dave Hart needs to get rid of her ASAP if the program has any chance of being a Final Four team in the next 5 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 22 people
#2
#2
bballnut90 said:
I posted this on another board, but as a long time fan of the program and women's basketball, my thoughts are below:

I personally don't think Tennessee should be a tourney team. They are in 9th place in the SEC, 7-7 in conference and 16-11 overall. Their best wins on the season are:

Oregon State: 23-3, 1st place in PAC-12
Syracuse: 21-6, 11-3 in ACC
Chattanooga: 20-7 overall. Lost by 2 to Tennessee, 48 to UCONN, 43 to Stanford and 28 to South Florida.
Auburn: 18-8 overall, 8-5 in SEC play
Missouri: 20-6 overall, 7-6 in SEC play

Note how ALL of these wins happened early in the season. The most recent "good" win was against Auburn on January 10th. If I'm on the committee, I'd place significantly lower emphasis on the wins over Syracuse and Oregon State because they happened so early in the year, and greater emphasis on their recent losses.

They have steadily declined as the season continues and are seriously tanking as the end of the year approaches. After winning their first 3 games separated by 5 or less, they have now lost 6 in a row decided by 5 points or less. Multiple times they have blown late 4th quarter leads. Today's was utterly ridiculous. 4 missed free throws in the last minute, leaving your worst free throw shooter in the game late, fouling the opposing team 80 feet from the basket with 3 seconds left, etc. Many UT fans and myself hope they don't get in at this point in an effort to get rid of Warlick.

Mind you, this this is a team that has:
2013 #1 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2013 #3 overall recruit, 2014 NFOY at other program
2012 #5 overall recruit, 2013 NFOY by some media outlets
2014 #6 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #12 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #21 recruit, 2014 All SEC Freshman team
2014 #28 recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #42 recruit, McDonald's AA

Compare this to #3 Notre Dame when you look at active players on their roster:
2014 #2 overall recruit, 2014 ACC FOY
2015 #10 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #18 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #21 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #26 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #33 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #39 overall recruit

Or #2 South Carolina
2014 #1 overall recruit, 2014 SEC FOY
2014 #7 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #28 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #35 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2012 #40 overall recruit
2012 #46 overall recruit

Looking at this blindly, everyone would pick Tennessee's lineup. Holly has under-performed in her ability to develop talent, under-performed in her ability to build a cohesive team, under-performed in her ability to get players to buy into her system, and under-performed in her in game coaching ability. Plus, she has no one on deck for 2016 and 2017. Dave Hart needs to get rid of her ASAP if the program has any chance of being a Final Four team in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...

Yes all good information..... or compare to Oregon State, whose players have improved from nobodies to being one of the best teams in the country..... this season has not been an aberration, it has sadly been a culmination of a steady decline over the last few years..... it was softened by the presence and leadership of Burdick, Ariel, and Harrison..... but nothing is looking good now here...... projecting into the future.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 people
#4
#4
bballnut90 said:
I posted this on another board, but as a long time fan of the program and women's basketball, my thoughts are below:

I personally don't think Tennessee should be a tourney team. They are in 9th place in the SEC, 7-7 in conference and 16-11 overall. Their best wins on the season are:

Oregon State: 23-3, 1st place in PAC-12
Syracuse: 21-6, 11-3 in ACC
Chattanooga: 20-7 overall. Lost by 2 to Tennessee, 48 to UCONN, 43 to Stanford and 28 to South Florida.
Auburn: 18-8 overall, 8-5 in SEC play
Missouri: 20-6 overall, 7-6 in SEC play

Note how ALL of these wins happened early in the season. The most recent "good" win was against Auburn on January 10th. If I'm on the committee, I'd place significantly lower emphasis on the wins over Syracuse and Oregon State because they happened so early in the year, and greater emphasis on their recent losses.

They have steadily declined as the season continues and are seriously tanking as the end of the year approaches. After winning their first 3 games separated by 5 or less, they have now lost 6 in a row decided by 5 points or less. Multiple times they have blown late 4th quarter leads. Today's was utterly ridiculous. 4 missed free throws in the last minute, leaving your worst free throw shooter in the game late, fouling the opposing team 80 feet from the basket with 3 seconds left, etc. Many UT fans and myself hope they don't get in at this point in an effort to get rid of Warlick.

Mind you, this this is a team that has:
2013 #1 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2013 #3 overall recruit, 2014 NFOY at other program
2012 #5 overall recruit, 2013 NFOY by some media outlets
2014 #6 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #12 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #21 recruit, 2014 All SEC Freshman team
2014 #28 recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #42 recruit, McDonald's AA

Compare this to #3 Notre Dame when you look at active players on their roster:
2014 #2 overall recruit, 2014 ACC FOY
2015 #10 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #18 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #21 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #26 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #33 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #39 overall recruit

Or #2 South Carolina
2014 #1 overall recruit, 2014 SEC FOY
2014 #7 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #28 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #35 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2012 #40 overall recruit
2012 #46 overall recruit

Looking at this blindly, everyone would pick Tennessee's lineup. Holly has under-performed in her ability to develop talent, under-performed in her ability to build a cohesive team, under-performed in her ability to get players to buy into her system, and under-performed in her in game coaching ability. Plus, she has no one on deck for 2016 and 2017. Dave Hart needs to get rid of her ASAP if the program has any chance of being a Final Four team in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...

Pretty sobering facts.... can't really argue with this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#5
#5
I said it last year and i'll say it again,Holly has to go!!!She loves the program but is not a good coach.Sorry Holly supporters,it's the cold hard facts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#7
#7
morristown vol said:
I said it last year and i'll say it again,Holly has to go!!!She loves the program but is not a good coach.Sorry Holly supporters,it's the cold hard facts.
Click to expand...

Nah everybody knows it's not Holly's fault. This is because of the players, the refs, the fans, under inflated basketballs, unis too tight, shoes not tied correctly, too much shine on the floor blinding players, people in the stands with the wrong shade of orange on, Donald Trump and so on and so on. Warlick worshippers will never see the real problem only what they want to believe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#8
#8
There are literally millions of people who "love the program" and thousands who have played for the mens or womens teams who "love the school" as well.

This today should be the straw that broke the camels back. You can't come into the season ranked # 4 in the nation...then go 16-11....get ousted from the top 25 for the first time in over 30 years and lose to the worst team in the conference.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 10 people
#9
#9
LasVegasBill23 said:
Yes all good information..... or compare to Oregon State, whose players have improved from nobodies to being one of the best teams in the country..... this season has not been an aberration, it has sadly been a culmination of a steady decline over the last few years..... it was softened by the presence and leadership of Burdick, Ariel, and Harrison..... but nothing is looking good now here...... projecting into the future.....
Click to expand...

Even in Pat's last few years when the program took a major decline after 2008 (winning back to back titles and playing in 6 of the previous 7 Final Fours), they were still a Final Four favorite in 2 of her last 4:
2009-Everyone knew this would be a rough year post Parker and supporting players, and that it was.

2010-They finished with just 3 losses on the season and were a #1 seed. They were undefeated in SEC play (or maybe 1 loss-can't remember), won the tournament and were a major Final Four favorite until they ran into the Brittney Griner show. Her game against UT was the first huge statement she made on a national scale. In hindsight, I think the only teams that would have beat Baylor in that Sweet 16 matchup are Stanford and Connecticut. Great rebound season even with no Final Four.

2011-Another 3 loss season, outright SEC title and conference championship. Major favorite for the Final Four, but ran into a red hot Notre Dame team led by Skylar Diggins who made her first major statement in the tournament.

In 2012, Pat was technically the coach but that was when Holly started taking over most of the head coaching duties. They had a rough year finishing just 27-9 I believe, but you can't really hold this season against Pat or Holly due to the circumstances.


2013 rolls around, and Holly actually did a very admirable job her first season. I'll give her credit. Tennessee was a much better team than most people expected, and earned a spot in the Elite 8, lost a game they should have won but overall had a better than expected season.

2014, yes they technically earned a #1 seed, but most people thought they'd flop before the Final Four, and they did so badly in the Sweet 16.

2015, another underperforming year where they nearly lost to an 11 seed in the Sweet 16, managed to pull together an SEC title but their offense was so abysmal and they were never close to being a threat to South Carolina, Notre Dame or UCONN.

2016 is a whole different level of underperforming as noted in this thread.

It has been a steady decline the last 4-5 years (really the last 8 years), and the wheels have really come off this year.

The outlook for the program is awful. Recruits nowadays are too young to really grasp how incredible the program was from the late 1970s until 2008. They were no older than 8 or 9 years old when Tennessee won their last title. Tennessee didn't land a single recruit for 2016, and has no one on board for 2017. I have little confidence that Holly will be able to lure any top 20 2017 or 2018 players to UT with how mediocre the program has become. She wasn't able to land multiple top 20 recruits who are from Tennessee.

Despite landing a plethora of top 10 recruits from 2008 until today, no player who graduated from 2009 until now has turned into a big name in women's basketball outside of Glory Johnson, who can attribute much of her household name status to her infamous relationship with Griner, although she has done a great job in the pros on her own merit.

The most historic program in women's basketball history is going down the tubes, and there's really no promise or any positive outlook for the program at this point. Time for a major change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 people
#10
#10
If Holly is this bad with what was considered the 4th best in the country imagine what she will do going forward without any recruits? Btw, she has already struck out with the 4 best in HER HOME STATE of Tennessee and currently has NONE...ZERO for next yr.

It may seem this is rock bottom for the LV...but omg it can actually get much worse.

30 some years in the top 25 ended today in embarrassing and humiliating fashion.

I know Holly said the victory against the 2nd worst team in the SEC the other day at home was a "GREAT WIN", but this today was reprehensible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#11
#11
djohnnyg said:
There are literally millions of people who "love the program" and thousands who have played for the mens or womens teams who "love the school" as well.

This today should be the straw that broke the camels back. You can't come into the season ranked # 4 in the nation...then go 16-11....get ousted from the top 25 for the first time in over 30 years and lose to the worst team in the conference.
Click to expand...

Boom!:banghead2:
 
#14
#14
bballnut90 said:
I posted this on another board, but as a long time fan of the program and women's basketball, my thoughts are below:

I personally don't think Tennessee should be a tourney team. They are in 9th place in the SEC, 7-7 in conference and 16-11 overall. Their best wins on the season are:

Oregon State: 23-3, 1st place in PAC-12
Syracuse: 21-6, 11-3 in ACC
Chattanooga: 20-7 overall. Lost by 2 to Tennessee, 48 to UCONN, 43 to Stanford and 28 to South Florida.
Auburn: 18-8 overall, 8-5 in SEC play
Missouri: 20-6 overall, 7-6 in SEC play

Note how ALL of these wins happened early in the season. The most recent "good" win was against Auburn on January 10th. If I'm on the committee, I'd place significantly lower emphasis on the wins over Syracuse and Oregon State because they happened so early in the year, and greater emphasis on their recent losses.

They have steadily declined as the season continues and are seriously tanking as the end of the year approaches. After winning their first 3 games separated by 5 or less, they have now lost 6 in a row decided by 5 points or less. Multiple times they have blown late 4th quarter leads. Today's was utterly ridiculous. 4 missed free throws in the last minute, leaving your worst free throw shooter in the game late, fouling the opposing team 80 feet from the basket with 3 seconds left, etc. Many UT fans and myself hope they don't get in at this point in an effort to get rid of Warlick.

Mind you, this this is a team that has:
2013 #1 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2013 #3 overall recruit, 2014 NFOY at other program
2012 #5 overall recruit, 2013 NFOY by some media outlets
2014 #6 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #12 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #21 recruit, 2014 All SEC Freshman team
2014 #28 recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #42 recruit, McDonald's AA

Compare this to #3 Notre Dame when you look at active players on their roster:
2014 #2 overall recruit, 2014 ACC FOY
2015 #10 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #18 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #21 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #26 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #33 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #39 overall recruit

Or #2 South Carolina
2014 #1 overall recruit, 2014 SEC FOY
2014 #7 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #28 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #35 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2012 #40 overall recruit
2012 #46 overall recruit

Looking at this blindly, everyone would pick Tennessee's lineup. Holly has under-performed in her ability to develop talent, under-performed in her ability to build a cohesive team, under-performed in her ability to get players to buy into her system, and under-performed in her in game coaching ability. Plus, she has no one on deck for 2016 and 2017. Dave Hart needs to get rid of her ASAP if the program has any chance of being a Final Four team in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...

Nice analysis but ain't going to happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#16
#16
djohnnyg said:
There are literally millions of people who "love the program" and thousands who have played for the mens or womens teams who "love the school" as well.

This today should be the straw that broke the camels back. You can't come into the season ranked # 4 in the nation...then go 16-11....get ousted from the top 25 for the first time in over 30 years and lose to the worst team in the conference.
Click to expand...

The truth hurts. See any similarities between the Holly lovers and the Fulmer lovers? Head buried in the sand. It's called R E A L I T Y. Look at the F A C T S. Take off the orange-colored glasses for a minute.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#17
#17
bballnut90 said:
Even in Pat's last few years when the program took a major decline after 2008 (winning back to back titles and playing in 6 of the previous 7 Final Fours), they were still a Final Four favorite in 2 of her last 4:
2009-Everyone knew this would be a rough year post Parker and supporting players, and that it was.

2010-They finished with just 3 losses on the season and were a #1 seed. They were undefeated in SEC play (or maybe 1 loss-can't remember), won the tournament and were a major Final Four favorite until they ran into the Brittney Griner show. Her game against UT was the first huge statement she made on a national scale. In hindsight, I think the only teams that would have beat Baylor in that Sweet 16 matchup are Stanford and Connecticut. Great rebound season even with no Final Four.

2011-Another 3 loss season, outright SEC title and conference championship. Major favorite for the Final Four, but ran into a red hot Notre Dame team led by Skylar Diggins who made her first major statement in the tournament.

In 2012, Pat was technically the coach but that was when Holly started taking over most of the head coaching duties. They had a rough year finishing just 27-9 I believe, but you can't really hold this season against Pat or Holly due to the circumstances.


2013 rolls around, and Holly actually did a very admirable job her first season. I'll give her credit. Tennessee was a much better team than most people expected, and earned a spot in the Elite 8, lost a game they should have won but overall had a better than expected season.

2014, yes they technically earned a #1 seed, but most people thought they'd flop before the Final Four, and they did so badly in the Sweet 16.

2015, another underperforming year where they nearly lost to an 11 seed in the Sweet 16, managed to pull together an SEC title but their offense was so abysmal and they were never close to being a threat to South Carolina, Notre Dame or UCONN.

2016 is a whole different level of underperforming as noted in this thread.

It has been a steady decline the last 4-5 years (really the last 8 years), and the wheels have really come off this year.

The outlook for the program is awful. Recruits nowadays are too young to really grasp how incredible the program was from the late 1970s until 2008. They were no older than 8 or 9 years old when Tennessee won their last title. Tennessee didn't land a single recruit for 2016, and has no one on board for 2017. I have little confidence that Holly will be able to lure any top 20 2017 or 2018 players to UT with how mediocre the program has become. She wasn't able to land multiple top 20 recruits who are from Tennessee.

Despite landing a plethora of top 10 recruits from 2008 until today, no player who graduated from 2009 until now has turned into a big name in women's basketball outside of Glory Johnson, who can attribute much of her household name status to her infamous relationship with Griner, although she has done a great job in the pros on her own merit.

The most historic program in women's basketball history is going down the tubes, and there's really no promise or any positive outlook for the program at this point. Time for a major change.
Click to expand...

Nice post with good info BBallnut90.... I actually have been excited at the teams prospects the last few years.... we have had talent yes, but we have never shown well.... I cannot even remember one signature win since Pat left several years ago.....

I thought Stricklen's class could get deep into the tournament, then last year's senior class's ceiling was the elite 8..... and this group we have is not on par with last year's team....

All the McDonald's All Star team scouts cannot be wrong... we have had a coaching issue for some time... it just has not surfaced in raw fashion as it has this year.... I would love to know what the coaching staff does in practice.... and what sort of drills the team goes through.... losing to some teams this year I have not minded, but LSU? Arkansas? Florida? And the way we looked losing to them..... And the bad teams we are beating by 2 or 3 points.....

It is so sad.... a once proud program I would like again to be
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#19
#19
I agree with the OP information. That was very nice information & analogy. However, I would hate to see us not make the NCAA tourney & breakup the consecutive times that we've been in the NCAA tourney.

This team will probably get put out in the 1st round anyhow but it would really hurt me/others & really the program to not make it. The NIT just isn't mentioned when it comes to the Lady Vols basketball program.

It is sad that we have absolutely no recruits for the 2016 & 2017 season. All the 2016 recruits have went elsewhere including 3 in state girls. 2 of them in the top 45 recruits. That shouldn't happen to UT. This certainly says Holly needs to go because even the recruits are running from the program now. Geez! :no:
 
#20
#20
Sandvol said:
Nice analysis but ain't going to happen.
Click to expand...

Let's see we've got declining attendance, zero going on the recruiting trail, and a team that has underperformed badly. At this point I think it'll be a miracle if she comes back
 
#22
#22
bballnut90 said:
I personally don't think Tennessee should be a tourney team.
Click to expand...

I don't think the team as-of today should be in the tournament, either, but I can't make myself root for them to lose a game. I commented on the possibility of them missing the tournament back when they fell to Virginia Tech -- it was something in the way they played that just seemed, I don't know, wrong -- but I still don't want them to miss the dance. Never. Can't make myself do that.

The real question, the money question, is what will happen to the program's presence once the last parts of the Summitt line move away from the spotlight. It's the one thing I don't know for certain. Did 11,000 a year show up for the sport, or did they show up for the icon? "A lot of the icon, and some of the sport" one might say. I actually thought the attendance would drop off a bit more after Summitt retired, but to the credit of the fans they kept coming, and I was impressed by that. I think there's a lot of local appreciation for the program itself and it's always seemed to me as if Tennessee has a bit more appetite for watch girls play basketball than in other states. If the next coach steps in, keeps that attendance rolling, sells the pitch of playing in front of big crowds and big traditions ... ehh, one can hope. There's a lot of good there. But it's going to take a lot of work to get Tennessee back.

Can't replace Summitt, though. Can't replace Wooden. Even if Holly had stepped in and torn it up for 5-10 years, even then, she'd eventually retire too. Sooner or later we'll have to move forward. UT will have to look to the future and pick the best person there is -- and trust that the foundation Summitt built will help that next leader elevate them to the top.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top