Attempt to look at CO2 in a realistic manner:

#51
#51
CO2 concentration was not the driver of the last ice age. The low concentration was due to a colder ocean acting as an even stronger CO2 sink, thus low CO2 was just a positive feedback mechanism in the cooling period, much like the increased ice and snow cover reflecting more solar radiation was not the cause of the ice age, but rather a positive feedback mechanism. The last glacial maximum was more due to orbital factors such as the Milankovitch Cycle.

I agree that the Milankovitch cycles initiate the positive feedbacks resulting in the Last Glacial Maximum. I agree the albedo effect strongly influences radiative forcings.

However, all of that includes a dip in CO2 concentration. We are currently in a natural cooling period for instance (although the next Milankovitch cycle is a few 10k years away), but we aren't getting cooler. Milankovitch doesn't really matter without the corresponding dip in CO2, which I'm sure you know.

Fourier calculated the average temperature of the Earth without GHGs is -15C, a figure still well-regarded two centuries later. Given we are above 50C right now should demonstate a little CO2 goes a long way.

Good knowledge of the science, IP. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
#52
#52
If you agree with IP (which I do), then how could you (with intellectual honesty) type that with a tiny swing down in CO2 there is ice over Cleveland? You've just agreed that the fall in CO2 was not the initiating cause, though it does provide positive feedback to the cooling. Without the STRONG effects from the orbital effects, the dip in CO2 would not have produced the effect you ascribed to it. No?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#53
#53
If you agree with IP (which I do), then how could you (with intellectual honesty) type that with a tiny swing down in CO2 there is ice over Cleveland? You've just agreed that the fall in CO2 was not the initiating cause, though it does provide positive feedback to the cooling. Without the STRONG effects from the orbital effects, the dip in CO2 would not have produced the effect you ascribed to it. No?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

And this is why I called him :loco:.


Has the issue of smog been covered in this thread?
 
#54
#54
Are y'all serious? That goes for you too VOLatile.

A tiny swing lower in CO2 concentration puts a mile of ice over Cleveland.

The current huge swing (nearing 50% increase since pre-industrial time) is wreaking havoc on the Arctic and Clarksville, Tennessee.

Problem has been identified.
 
#55
#55
So if your cat defacates in your potted plant that is a problem?

No realistic projection has CO2 levels reaching poisonous levels.

Do you also claim that the release of oxygen by plants is a pollutant and poisonous???


Yes, and yes, in high enough levels. I do everything I can to keep my cat from crapping in my flower pot, and since no plant as of yet can produce more than 100% O2, I haven't yet had to campaign for the eradication of said plant.

When one or more do, though, I will.
 
#56
#56
See, he meant well but unwittingly went down a red-herring path that you have latched onto.

I'm addressing CO2 as a pollutant, period. I'll let you handle how pollutants affect global climate.

A stance that CO2 isn't a pollutant, simply because it is biologically significant, or found in the composition of the air is a terrible argument and justification for belief.

There are many things on this planet that are acceptable in trace amounts, but become pollutants in larger doses. Everything can be a pollutant, in too high a concentration. Dog poop on gs's lawn probably wouldn't cause a heck of a lot of harm, but I doubt he'd let me back a dump truck of it up to his front door.

Feel free to argue the climate end, but I will address the first flaw in the entire ordeal, not the subsequent conclusion from flaw.
 
#57
#57
Pollution of the atmosphere causing an increase in global temperature is the problem. We're not anywhere near the levels necessary to be concerned directly with human/animal health.

See, he meant well but unwittingly went down a red-herring path that you have latched onto.

AGW is a red herring itself.

The Earth has been warming since the little ice age.

Mars has been warming also, has nothing to do with
atmospheric CO2 levels.





No one has any platform to stand-on suggesting I'm rude. I am actually very civil, although somewhat bombastic, to everyone. And I believe everyone has the right to voice their opinion - one unfortunately not shared by the vast majority of Americans on VN, if you believe their posts here.

But I love rolling out Lindzen. Shall we line him up against Hansen?

Observed Global Warming:
Lindzen 0.1 +/- 0.3C

Hansen: 0.5-0.75 past century (Hansen wins)

Climate Sensitivity (to doubling CO2)

Lindzen: < 1C

Hansen 3+/- 1C (Hansen wins)

When will global warming and climate change be obvious

Lindzen: "I personally feel the likelihood over the next century of greenhouse warming reaching magnitudes comparable to natural variability seems small" MIT Tech Talk, Sep 27, 1989.

Hansen: 1988, "99% certain" global warming is visible in the data (Hansen wins).

Take heart, Lindzen believes there is no corollation between smoking and lung diseases! :eek:lol:

The rudeness post was directed toward floater, since
he is the one who keeps saying liar and bringing up
people's mothers.

Lindzen is a competent scientist. Hansen is a nutjob
who is being sued to answer foia requests he has
ignored.

Hansen is an iealogue who believes in ecoterrorism
and shutting down all industry. He says civilization
is the enemy.

The man who preceded him in the job he now holds
and uses for political hysterics said that 'Hansen is
an embarrassment to NASA.'


hansen-eco-vandal.jpg


Andrew Lacis, a colleague of James Hansen’s at GISS,
says the fourth UN IPCC has no scientific merit!!

Hansen colleague rejected IPCC AR4 ES as having &#8220;no scientific merit&#8221;, but what does IPCC do? | Watts Up With That?

There is no scientific merit to be found in the
Executive Summary. The presentation sounds
like something put together by Greenpeace
activists and their legal department.

The points being made are made arbitrarily with
legal sounding caveats without having established
any foundation or basis in fact.


The Executive Summary seems to be a political
statement that is only designed to annoy greenhouse
skeptics. Wasn’t the IPCC Assessment Report intended
to be a scientific document that would merit solid
backing from the climate science community – instead
of forcing many climate scientists into having to agree
with greenhouse skeptic criticisms that this is indeed
a report with a clear and obvious political agenda.

Attribution can not happen until understanding has
been clearly demonstrated. Once the facts of climate
change have been established and understood,
attribution will become self-evident to all.

The Executive Summary as it stands is beyond redemption and should simply be deleted."






Fourier calculated the average temperature of the Earth without GHGs is -15C, a figure still well-regarded two centuries later. Given we are above 50C right now should demonstate a little CO2 goes a long way.

Well actually it doesn't at all unless you believe
the AGW theory and manipulate science to demostrate
the theory which is already proven to be false.






Yes, and yes, in high enough levels. I do everything I can to keep my cat from crapping in my flower pot, and since no plant as of yet can produce more than 100% O2, I haven't yet had to campaign for the eradication of said plant.

When one or more do, though, I will.

WTF.jpg


CO2 is part of the life cycle of all living things and
is a neccessary ingredient for all life on Earth.

Again, which plants and animals are dying because
of CO2 levels?






A stance that CO2 isn't a pollutant, simply because it is biologically significant, or found in the composition of the air is a terrible argument and justification for belief.

Feel free to argue the climate end, but I will address the first flaw in the entire ordeal, not the subsequent conclusion from flaw.


The fact of the matter is that the nutjobs at the EPA
are trying to say that CO2 is a pollutant in order to
regulate business and the amount of CO2 they would
control through their heavy handed methods isn't even
significant in the grand scheme of things.
 
#58
#58
GS- you do understand the difference between the Executive Summary and the actual assessment report, right? It sounds like he felt too much science was left out of the summary and that it took on too much of a political tone.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#59
#59
CO2 is part of the life cycle of all living things and
is a neccessary ingredient for all life on Earth.

Again, which plants and animals are dying because
of CO2 levels?

Yes, and like I said, it can also be a pollutant to all forms of life at levels above physiologic, which I have already given, for humans. I have also shown that CO2 can kill, when levels are above physiologic. I have also stated that water is necessary to life, but can also be a pollutant.

CO2 is a pollutant in excess, do you deny? Do you deny that CO2 can kill you? I will ask you a direct question, gs, can CO2 kill you? Too much water can kill you, too much of anything can kill you, which is why we set physiologic levels, or levels that can be maintained.

The problem is that we don't know physiologic levels for every friggen biological entity on this planet. We also don't know how increased CO2 will affect biological competition. We don't know how increased CO2 will alter the landscape of crops and green life.

Once upon a time, nitrogen was the best thing ever for plants... until we realized that weeds are able to better utilize nitrogen than the crops we were trying to increase in size.

There is a lot we don't know, and until we have some better understanding, it isn't wise to just go half cocked out into the world and increase CO2 concentration. The last time had super high CO2 concentration, we had quite a different landscape of green life... in fact, I think we only have about 7% of the plant population.

But, one thing we do know, though, is that CO2 above a physiologic amount will end you. Do you disagree?
 
#60
#60
GS- you do understand the difference between the Executive Summary and the actual assessment report, right? It sounds like he felt too much science was left out of the summary and that it took on too much of a political tone.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

The statement might be interpreted that way, however
it doesn't appear that Hansen has all the GISS scientists
aboard his alarmist agenda.

AGW models have all predicted that increased CO2
levels can only lead to warmer temperatures.

They were all wrong.

Temperature trend since 1998 is down, while CO2
levels increased. Why did these models fail ? These
models primarily ignored the effects of solar induced
changes.

The only theories that correctly predicted the
falling temperature trend are those that placed
proper emphasis on changes in solar output as
well as placing the the proper emphasis on CO2
induced heating.


The UN IPCC is and always has been far more political
than scientific, using scare tactics, falsified data,
unsound methodology and improper formulas used
to produce predictions.
 
#61
#61
ITT people that have studied in the respective area vs. a guy that reads one sided articles about the subject...
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#62
#62
Do people actually argue that increased CO2 must cause temperature increases, irrespective of other influences? I haven't heard that argued. That includes contributors and authors of IPCC chapters that I have had discussions with. Perhaps sone do....I don't know any.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#63
#63
Yes, and like I said, it can also be a pollutant to all forms of life at levels above physiologic, which I have already given, for humans. I have also shown that CO2 can kill, when levels are above physiologic. I have also stated that water is necessary to life, but can also be a pollutant.

CO2 is a pollutant in excess, do you deny? Do you deny that CO2 can kill you? I will ask you a direct question, gs, can CO2 kill you? Too much water can kill you, too much of anything can kill you, which is why we set physiologic levels, or levels that can be maintained.

The problem is that we don't know physiologic levels for every friggen biological entity on this planet. We also don't know how increased CO2 will affect biological competition. We don't know how increased CO2 will alter the landscape of crops and green life.

Once upon a time, nitrogen was the best thing ever for plants... until we realized that weeds are able to better utilize nitrogen than the crops we were trying to increase in size.

There is a lot we don't know, and until we have some better understanding, it isn't wise to just go half cocked out into the world and increase CO2 concentration. The last time had super high CO2 concentration, we had quite a different landscape of green life... in fact, I think we only have about 7% of the plant population.

But, one thing we do know, though, is that CO2 above a physiologic amount will end you. Do you disagree?

sophl.jpg


Your post is so full of wrong or misleading items
that it's dificult to tell where to start.

Nevertheless I'll cover some of the more egregious
errors;

CO2 is such a tiny concentration of the atmosphere
that its overall impact is neglible. 380ppm sounds real
scary, until you realize it is .00038 concentration.

That is .038 of 1%.

Not only that but man made CO2 is only a small fraction
to the total CO2 in the atmosphere rendering the whole
political discourse almost unworthy of attention.

Considering that man made atmospheric CO2 recycles
back into the oceans or is utilized by plants within five
years, there is no realistic equation where CO2 would
ever become harmful in our planet's atmosphere to any
plant or animal specie.

I still didn't see where you named a particular level
where CO2 would become physiological (who made up
that word anyway?) nor have I seen you list any plants
and animals that have been killed by CO2 as you have
claimed.

Being killed by CO2 in some sort of closed environment
would be feasable but not realistic in real life situations.

Nitrogen depleted soils will not produce corn crops,
that's why corn farmers rotate with legumes such
as soy beans to replentish nitrogen in the soil and
use weed killers such as 'roundup.' Again, fertilizers
are used to increase crops of all sorts. You wouldn't last one year as a farmer with your idiotic doctrine.

I disagree that CO2 should be called a pollutant for
political purposes.

If you consider it all in REALISTIC terms, CO2 comes
nowhere close to being a pollutant.
 
#64
#64
Considering that man made atmospheric CO2 recycles
back into the oceans or is utilized by plants within five
years, there is no realistic equation where CO2 would
ever become harmful in our planet's atmosphere to any
plant or animal specie.

What is physiologic pH of life? At what point does acidosis become fatal, or produce irreversible harm to systems?

Increasing CO2 decreases pH (increases H+ concentration). When this occurs in living systems, it must be corrected or it can be fatal. It is called acidosis.

We do not have the pleasure of knowing all living organisms' physiologic baseline.

Some living systems better tolerate various levels than others. Some plants tolerate higher CO2 than others. But this is not always the case. Coral reefs, home to and protection for, various ocean dwelling animals are harmed by acidification (decreased pH due to increased CO2).

Ocean acidification is killing the Great Barrier Reef

gsvol said:
I still didn't see where you named a particular level
where CO2 would become physiological (who made up
that word anyway?) nor have I seen you list any plants
and animals that have been killed by CO2 as you have
claimed.

Being killed by CO2 in some sort of closed environment
would be feasable but not realistic in real life situations.

I stated CO2 is normal between 20-29 mEq/L for humans. Try reading. Group of letters together makes words, words make sentences... etc. You'll get the hang by 75, probably.

Pa. monument to honor firefighters, paramedics killed in CO2 accident

We shall tell their kids... they died in a fairy tale, as it wasn't real life.

gsvol said:
Nitrogen depleted soils will not produce corn crops,
that's why corn farmers rotate with legumes such
as soy beans to replentish nitrogen in the soil and
use weed killers such as 'roundup.' Again, fertilizers
are used to increase crops of all sorts. You wouldn't last one year as a farmer with your idiotic doctrine.

And they have to use roundup why? Because weeds grow better in nitrogen enhanced soils. You also result in BTEX (That is Benzene, Toulene, Ethyl Benzene and Xylene) increases in the water table as a result, among other water pollutants.

gsvol said:
I disagree that CO2 should be called a pollutant for
political purposes.

If you consider it all in REALISTIC terms, CO2 comes
nowhere close to being a pollutant.

I'm not talking political purposes, I'm talking biological purposes, if you have yet to notice.
 
#65
#65
Nitrogen depleted soils will not produce corn crops,
that's why corn farmers rotate with legumes such
as soy beans to replentish nitrogen in the soil and
use weed killers such as 'roundup.' Again, fertilizers
are used to increase crops of all sorts.
You wouldn't last one year as a farmer with your idiotic doctrine.

Here is a simple example: in the 1950s when fertilizer (e.g., nutrients, a resource) was cheap, adding supraoptimal amounts of nitrogen was tested as a means to reduce weed competition with crops, the logic being that if there was a surplus amount of nitrogen, then competition for that resource would be reduced. Instead, scientists found that competition from weeds increased and crop yields were reduced further (e.g., Vengris, et al. 1955). Why? Because weeds were able to utilize the additional resource (N) much more efficiently and less was available to the crop.

Unfortunately, a number of studies indicate that among plant species in an agricultural system, weeds, rather than crops, are likely to show the strongest relative response to rising carbon dioxide (Ziska2000; Ziska 2003b). That is, even though individual plants of rice or wheat can respond to carbon dioxide, the greater response of weedy species to CO2 may result in increased competition and exacerbated losses in crop production (Figure 19.3). This is analogous to the supraoptimal nitrogen experiments where weeds responded more to excess nitrogen than the crop. Assuming that the studies conducted so far represent general trends, then rising carbon dioxide could actually reduce yield within agricultural systems on a global scale.

-- Rising Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and Plant Biology: The Overlooked Paradigm
Lewis H. Ziska


Thank God we have you gs... we'll just hit all our crops with Triple 13, increased CO2 and follow up with some roundup from a good ol' dusting. No harm could ever come from that...
 
#66
#66
Do people actually argue that increased CO2 must cause temperature increases, irrespective of other influences? I haven't heard that argued. That includes contributors and authors of IPCC chapters that I have had discussions with. Perhaps sone do....I don't know any.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Globular smaring has NOTHING to do with CO2
and EVERYTHING to do with postal rates!!

us_post_causes_global_warming.jpg


Actually the whole argument has to do with
REALISTIC quantities assigned to various factors,
AGW alarmists (and those who suck up funds to
perptuate the hoax) are using factors known to be
erroneous.

The money would be far better spend studying
ways to survive the next ice age which in inevitable
no matter what CO2 levels may be.
 
#67
#67
What is physiologic pH of life? At what point does acidosis become fatal, or produce irreversible harm to systems?

Increasing CO2 decreases pH (increases H+ concentration). When this occurs in living systems, it must be corrected or it can be fatal. It is called acidosis.

We do not have the pleasure of knowing all living organisms' physiologic baseline.

Some living systems better tolerate various levels than others. Some plants tolerate higher CO2 than others. But this is not always the case. Coral reefs, home to and protection for, various ocean dwelling animals are harmed by acidification (decreased pH due to increased CO2).

Ocean acidification is killing the Great Barrier Reef



I stated CO2 is normal between 20-29 mEq/L for humans. Try reading. Group of letters together makes words, words make sentences... etc. You'll get the hang by 75, probably.

Pa. monument to honor firefighters, paramedics killed in CO2 accident

We shall tell their kids... they died in a fairy tale, as it wasn't real life.



And they have to use roundup why? Because weeds grow better in nitrogen enhanced soils. You also result in BTEX (That is Benzene, Toulene, Ethyl Benzene and Xylene) increases in the water table as a result, among other water pollutants.



I'm not talking political purposes, I'm talking biological purposes, if you have yet to notice.

Methinks you are suffering from LSD acidosis.

You should probably do a bit more research to
find the answers to your questions.
 
#68
#68
Here is a simple example: in the 1950s when fertilizer (e.g., nutrients, a resource) was cheap, adding supraoptimal amounts of nitrogen was tested as a means to reduce weed competition with crops, the logic being that if there was a surplus amount of nitrogen, then competition for that resource would be reduced. Instead, scientists found that competition from weeds increased and crop yields were reduced further (e.g., Vengris, et al. 1955). Why? Because weeds were able to utilize the additional resource (N) much more efficiently and less was available to the crop.

Unfortunately, a number of studies indicate that among plant species in an agricultural system, weeds, rather than crops, are likely to show the strongest relative response to rising carbon dioxide (Ziska2000; Ziska 2003b). That is, even though individual plants of rice or wheat can respond to carbon dioxide, the greater response of weedy species to CO2 may result in increased competition and exacerbated losses in crop production (Figure 19.3). This is analogous to the supraoptimal nitrogen experiments where weeds responded more to excess nitrogen than the crop. Assuming that the studies conducted so far represent general trends, then rising carbon dioxide could actually reduce yield within agricultural systems on a global scale.

-- Rising Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide and Plant Biology: The Overlooked Paradigm
Lewis H. Ziska


Thank God we have you gs... we'll just hit all our crops with Triple 13, increased CO2 and follow up with some roundup from a good ol' dusting. No harm could ever come from that...

Another simple example, when temperature declined
from mid forties to the seventies the global cooling
enviro-nazis claimed the coming of another ice age
would be brought on by CO2 emissions.

There have been many claims brought on by the
enviros that weed killer chemicals will kill us all but
so far their claims have been about as accurate as
their claims of uncontrolled global warming due to
the use of fossil fuels for energy production.

Try again.
:clapping:
 
#69
#69
Globular smaring has NOTHING to do with CO2
and EVERYTHING to do with postal rates!!

us_post_causes_global_warming.jpg


Actually the whole argument has to do with
REALISTIC quantities assigned to various factors,
AGW alarmists (and those who suck up funds to
perptuate the hoax) are using factors known to be
erroneous.

The money would be far better spend studying
ways to survive the next ice age which in inevitable
no matter what CO2 levels may be.

Anybody that knows anything about statistics-- make that basic graphing-- can tel you just widened the Y-axis for CO2 compared to the temperature to make it look like it didn't match up well. You're literally just peddling lies.
 
#70
#70
Methinks you are suffering from LSD acidosis.

You should probably do a bit more research to
find the answers to your questions.

I know the answers to my questions, you obviously do not, which is why you continue to deflect and dance around.

And as to your response to my other post: what does that have to do with the price of the magic beans you are selling, Mr. Farmer, sir?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#71
#71
Globular smaring has NOTHING to do with CO2
and EVERYTHING to do with postal rates!!

us_post_causes_global_warming.jpg


Actually the whole argument has to do with
REALISTIC quantities assigned to various factors,
AGW alarmists (and those who suck up funds to
perptuate the hoax) are using factors known to be
erroneous.

The money would be far better spend studying
ways to survive the next ice age which in inevitable
no matter what CO2 levels may be.

What does this have to do with the questions I posed?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#72
#72
Anybody that knows anything about statistics-- make that basic graphing-- can tel you just widened the Y-axis for CO2 compared to the temperature to make it look like it didn't match up well. You're literally just peddling lies.

It is a lie to say that CO2 levels drive Earth
temperatures no matter how you cut it.



I know the answers to my questions, you obviously do not, which is why you continue to deflect and dance around.

And as to your response to my other post: what does that have to do with the price of the magic beans you are selling, Mr. Farmer, sir?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Your responses might as well come for some
Alice in wonderland scenario, remember we are
talinking about realism in this thread.





What does this have to do with the questions I posed?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

About as much as your question has to do
with my original post.
 
#73
#73
GS - I disagree. I was responding directly to the post about the models predicting that the only thing that can happen with increasing CO2 is warming. I not sure, maybe someone can let ne know with some certainty, but the models may not have a dial to adjust solar flux reaching the earth. However, I think they do. Thus, temperatures could fall with increasing CO2, depending on how the model is run.

My point is that I haven't run into any climate modelers who argue that temperatures must increase with increasing CO2, irrespective if other influences. Thus, I have a hard time not seeing problems with the statement you posted. It is probably true that the modelers don't include the 11-year solar cycle in their modeling, because temperatures will be right back "up there" in a few years. However, if you could predict that an orbital shift were to occur miraculously tomorrow, I think that they would be quite interested in capturing this in the model.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#74
#74
If you agree with IP (which I do), then how could you (with intellectual honesty) type that with a tiny swing down in CO2 there is ice over Cleveland? You've just agreed that the fall in CO2 was not the initiating cause, though it does provide positive feedback to the cooling. Without the STRONG effects from the orbital effects, the dip in CO2 would not have produced the effect you ascribed to it. No?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I can see you and IP have taken an admirably high line regarding your AGW posts here.

I COMPLETELY simplified the argument in my previous post. I admire that y'all have been towing a conservative, IPCC style line free of hyperbole. I have a propensity for bombast on the sports board. I defer absolutely and unconditionally :hi:

I would only suggest not losing the forest for the trees. CO2 has an immense impact on radiative forcing. I think we should make that very plain, and that seems to be a point of contention in the posts I've seen in this forum.

Current increases in CO2 have had circa +1.5 W/m2 radiative forcing. I'm almost positive that's 3x the solar irradiance effect during the "low" periods on a Milankovitch cycle (I don't remember which of the three cycles is the most pronounced; please post if there is a proper figure). Also, the planet has had NO ice cover for much of its history (despite a -15C average predicted by Fourier) during much of its history. I believe the massive Eocene dip in CO2, attributed now to weathering after formation of the Himalayas, prompted the first formation of northern sea ice.

I'd like to say, I admire yours and IP's approach to this issue, and I will endeavor to roll-back my excesses when discussing AGW (I call it Global Heating) because y'all have honorably and admirably taken a firm position before I started posting here.
 
Last edited:
#75
#75
GS - I disagree. I was responding directly to the post about the models predicting that the only thing that can happen with increasing CO2 is warming. I not sure, maybe someone can let ne know with some certainty, but the models may not have a dial to adjust solar flux reaching the earth. However, I think they do. Thus, temperatures could fall with increasing CO2, depending on how the model is run.

My point is that I haven't run into any climate modelers who argue that temperatures must increase with increasing CO2, irrespective if other influences. Thus, I have a hard time not seeing problems with the statement you posted. It is probably true that the modelers don't include the 11-year solar cycle in their modeling, because temperatures will be right back "up there" in a few years. However, if you could predict that an orbital shift were to occur miraculously tomorrow, I think that they would be quite interested in capturing this in the model.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Solar irradiance from all three components of the Milankovitch cycle are well-mapped. Milankovitch labored for years on what can be done in a little over a week with a computer. Imbrie and Wally Broecker did a lot of work combining the effects back in the 60s-70s.

Everyone agrees (including Lindzen) CO2 absorbs heat radiation and reflects it 360 degrees. Much of that heat is therefore reflected back to the surface of the Earth.

Other effects are possible. Hansen, for instance, is one of the few US scientists with any experience on airborne aerosols. His atmospheric model, famously, predicted the slight cooling experienced for two years after the Mt Pinatubo eruption.

The models are robust, but Hansen would be the first to tell you that the paleoclimate is where the rubber hits the road.
 

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