AZ shooting raises 2nd amendment issues (Foxnews)

[BeecherVol]

Before was concealed with a permit and no alcohol consumption. Now is (open* or concealed) carry with a permit, .08 BAC, and, from what I've been told at work, no one can ask to see a permit for the weapon**.

*Open carry must have a permit if they're carrying within city limits or if it's open in a vehicle.

**We aren't allowed to at work, where we deal firearms. I've even heard from some Republicans that cops can't either, but I'm not inclined to believe that.

The alcohol consumption part is the only part that really worries me.

Not a good mix.

 

[fl0at]

Before was concealed with a permit and no alcohol consumption. Now is (open* or concealed) carry with a permit, .08 BAC, and, from what I've been told at work, no one can ask to see a permit for the weapon**.

*Open carry must have a permit if they're carrying within city limits or if it's open in a vehicle.

**We aren't allowed to at work, where we deal firearms. I've even heard from some Republicans that cops can't either, but I'm not inclined to believe that.

The alcohol consumption part is the only part that really worries me.

Ok, typically open carry is added in to "concealed" legislation so that people aren't arrested for minor slips of the weapon, or printing.

It is why Tennessee has a "handgun carry permit." It used to be that the weapon had to be carried concealed, but people were getting into trouble for accidental slips where the weapon became briefly visible. So, in order to protect such incidents, the state went to open or concealed, with permit only.

Sounds like Iowa is doing something similar.

I highly doubt a LEO is not allowed to ask to see a permit, as that would be ridiculous. Unless, of course, that Iowa has an open carry statute that allows you to carry without a permit (such as Vermont or Virginia). If that is the case, then I could see why not being allowed to ask for a permit would make sense, as there wouldn't be a permit requirement. That doesn't sound like the case, from what you have stated.

The consumption while carrying thing is rather controversial. There will always be those who say that guns and alcohol don't mix, although a few states have such statutes on the books, and all hell has yet to break loose.

Even in Tennessee, where the "guns in bars" (although Tennessee doesn't have bars) thing became big, nothing really noteworthy has come from the new laws allowing patrons to carry where alcohol is consumed. Though, they themselves are not allowed to consume.

Guns and immaturity do not mix. Guns and alcohol can mix and have generally done so for quite some time. Incidents will occur, but incidents involving guns and alcohol already occur. The difference is that law abiding citizens aren't generally the ones that results in issue.

And in general, law abiding citizens get permits. There are, of course, exceptions... and idiots.

 

[VOLatile]

Not a good mix.

No. I was nearly shot when one of my "friends" decided to take out a gun from his closet. Incredibly intoxicated. He pointed it at me, I ran outside. When another friend came to get me he told me it wasn't loaded, so I came back it. The guy with the gun said, "Hey, look it's not loaded." Pointed it at the floor, pulled the trigger, and put a hole in the floor.

If anyone's ever wondered my discontent for guns...

 

[fl0at]

No. I was nearly shot when one of my "friends" decided to take out a gun from his closet. Incredibly intoxicated. He pointed it at me, I ran outside. When another friend came to get me he told me it wasn't loaded, so I came back it. The guy with the gun said, "Hey, look it's not loaded." Pointed it at the floor, pulled the trigger, and put a hole in the floor.

If anyone's ever wondered my discontent for guns...

Was it the first time he ever did such, or has he pulled out a weapon to "show off" before, while sober?

I've seen that happen a few times.

Guns and immaturity do not mix. Pulling a weapon out to show off to friends, while intoxicated, in my mind, is immaturity first and foremost.

I've also seen a lot of trap shooters out practicing while having a beer or two, and have yet to see, or shoot, anyone in the process.

Things are typically relative to the individual.

 

[BeecherVol]

No. I was nearly shot when one of my "friends" decided to take out a gun from his closet. Incredibly intoxicated. He pointed it at me, I ran outside. When another friend came to get me he told me it wasn't loaded, so I came back it. The guy with the gun said, "Hey, look it's not loaded." Pointed it at the floor, pulled the trigger, and put a hole in the floor.

If anyone's ever wondered my discontent for guns...

There is a high level of respect for them that can not be ignored. A certain level of alcohol typically will erased good judgement, assuming it is there to begin with.

 

[VOLatile]

Was it the first time he ever did such, or has he pulled out a weapon to "show off" before, while sober?

I've seen that happen a few times.

Guns and immaturity do not mix. Pulling a weapon out to show off to friends, while intoxicated, in my mind, is immaturity first and foremost.

I've also seen a lot of trap shooters out practicing while having a beer or two, and have yet to see, or shoot, anyone in the process.

Things are typically relative to the individual.

I agree it's relative to the maturity level of the individual.

In this case, I doubt this was the first incident of him showing it off. He later lost it in the bottom of a river as he flipped a canoe with his pregnant girlfriend inside...if that gives you any insight on his maturity.

In a bar atmosphere, I'm not worried about the person that owns the gun. I'm worried about the other 50 drunk people.

 

[fl0at]

There is a high level of respect for them that can not be ignored. A certain level of alcohol typically will erased good judgment, assuming it is there to begin with.

We, as a society, consider that level to be about 0.08, though, right?

 

[fl0at]

In a bar atmosphere, I'm not worried about the person that owns the gun. I'm worried about the other 50 drunk people.

I can understand that, but when I'm out and about, if you can tell I have a weapon on me, you are very very observant.

If the guy with the weapon is truly under 0.08, and is mature enough to understand that someone might be itching to handle his weapon... he/she will leave.

I don't see the doom and gloom scenario playing out, but I am extremely biased on this subject. A few isolated incidents will occur, but a few isolated incidents already occur.

They will definitely get more press time now, though.

 

[BeecherVol]

We, as a society, consider that level to be about 0.08, though, right?

Maybe. Does it take 0.08 to make bad judgement?

Never really studied it to much extent.

 

[BeecherVol]

I agree it's relative to the maturity level of the individual.

In this case, I doubt this was the first incident of him showing it off. He later lost it in the bottom of a river as he flipped a canoe with his pregnant girlfriend inside...if that gives you any insight on his maturity.

In a bar atmosphere, I'm not worried about the person that owns the gun. I'm worried about the other 50 drunk people.

Not to make light, but sounds like that had more to do with the ability to be responsible. Rather than alcohol.

 

[VOLatile]

I can understand that, but when I'm out and about, if you can tell I have a weapon on me, you are very very observant.

If the guy with the weapon is truly under 0.08, and is mature enough to understand that someone might be itching to handle his weapon... he/she will leave.

I don't see the doom and gloom scenario playing out, but I am extremely biased on this subject. A few isolated incidents will occur, but a few isolated incidents already occur.

They will definitely get more press time now, though.

Understood. If it were concealed carry I wouldn't be worried as much. I really don't think people are going to walk in with a handgun on their hip at the bars I go to, though.

 

[fl0at]

Understood. If it were concealed carry I wouldn't be worried as much. I really don't think people are going to walk in with a handgun on their hip at the bars I go to, though.

You never know... Some people will do things simply because the law allows them to do it. Try reading about Leonard Embody from Tennessee, if you ever get bored.

Beech, I think it can take 0.00 for someone to do something stupid, and anywhere in between. But when they blow more than 0.00, the "alcohol" is typically blamed.

When they do blow 0.00, people tend to look for mental illness.

Responsibility for actions is a thing of the past.

 

[fl0at]

Hm, one new piece of legislation that looks like it might be attempted to be put in place is a ban on magazines greater than 10 rounds in capacity.

It appears that this is going to be introduced in Congress this session, and will likely pass. I think the previous ban was lifted in 2004? I'm not certain, though.

There are a good number of handguns that come with "hi-cap" mags out of the box, so just keep an eye out on new Federal legislation, if this does indeed get introduced and passed.

I think the attempt will be to return it to 10 round capacity for all firearms.

 

[BeecherVol]

You never know... Some people will do things simply because the law allows them to do it. Try reading about Leonard Embody from Tennessee, if you ever get bored.

Beech, I think it can take 0.00 for someone to do something stupid, and anywhere in between. But when they blow more than 0.00, the "alcohol" is typically blamed.

When they do blow 0.00, people tend to look for mental illness.

Responsibility for actions is a thing of the past.

Agreed. And hate toward another can end up being the guns fault to some.

 

[fl0at]

Agreed. And hate toward another can end up being the guns fault to some.

I am a huge 2A supporter. That said, because that tends to be enough for most people, I am also a huge advocate of education, moderation and intelligent carry and ownership.

When I see people out and about open carrying, I look twice. I often disagree with some people doing something, simply because it is legal. Goes for the dude I mentioned, especially.

I didn't buy my little nephew a NERF gun for Christmas, because he is too young to have had counseling and education on responsible firearms handling, and I wouldn't want him to confuse one of the real firearms in the house as just another toy.

It takes responsible adults to educate and be educated on firearms and firearms safety. I got mine when I was very young. Hunters education in school, and got my little card when I was 8 years old.

Education, education and education trumps legal intervention, in my mind. There aren't a lot of 8 year olds that can read, interpret and understand state law on firearms.

But, there are a ton of 8 year olds that can be taught proper firearm safety, and should. We got away from that a long time ago, when we removed hunter education from schools.

I don't say that because schools should teach it, I say that because repetition is important.

And that is a rant, I believe.

 

[TSwafford]

i think everyone should pack heat.. kinda like how other countries have nuclear weapons to use them as a detterent to a nuclear attack

 

[BeecherVol]

I am a huge 2A supporter. That said, because that tends to be enough for most people, I am also a huge advocate of education, moderation and intelligent carry and ownership.

When I see people out and about open carrying, I look twice. I often disagree with some people doing something, simply because it is legal. Goes for the dude I mentioned, especially.

I didn't buy my little nephew a NERF gun for Christmas, because he is too young to have had counseling and education on responsible firearms handling, and I wouldn't want him to confuse one of the real firearms in the house as just another toy.

It takes responsible adults to educate and be educated on firearms and firearms safety. I got mine when I was very young. Hunters education in school, and got my little card when I was 8 years old.

Education, education and education trumps legal intervention, in my mind. There aren't a lot of 8 year olds that can read, interpret and understand state law on firearms.

But, there are a ton of 8 year olds that can be taught proper firearm safety, and should. We got away from that a long time ago, when we removed hunter education from schools.

I don't say that because schools should teach it, I say that because repetition is important.

And that is a rant, I believe.

I have 5 pieces myself, never had formal eduction with them. I was taught how to handle a firearm at a young age by my grandaddy.

Nice rant.:hi: