Bad news on Medicare, SS Trust Funds

#27
#27
No, the problem with oil companies is that they want to keep America hooked on their product and routinely use their political muscle to that end.
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So they want to remain in business? Ground breaking stuff there. Not to mention the alternatives just don't exist
 
#29
#29
droski said:
how about taxing 100% of social security benefits?
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Only if capital gains tax stays in the game.

droski said:
i've said for years we should merge it into welfare.
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Possibly... Meaning to say one government agency for all forms of cash benefit?

And yeah, I'm sure the folks on the hill have known at least for a little while that medicare and SS are about to dry up. SS ain't going anywhere because pulling from those coffers has kept us afloat (so to speak). I think we're all in agreement that the age needs to be raised; making it a function of life expectancy rather than a set age perhaps? I dunno. Just an idea.

Either way, the tax base has to broaden. I don't think somebody making $11/hour needs to be giving up as much of their paycheck as a Fortune 500 CEO, but everybody above a stone's throw of the poverty line needs to pony up.

IMO this is a call for the simplification of tax code as much as anything else; instead of having high marginal rates and reliance on deductions, simplify by removing deductions and drop the marginal rate. I posted a thread with a thesis from some economic policy research that proposed this.
 
#30
#30
volinbham said:
I'm just being civil and non-political about the whole thing but clearly you hate old and poor people. These proposals are Draconian and not the American values I grew up with.
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That's what ice floes and prison ships are for. Problem solved. You're welcome.
 
#31
#31
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Yesterday the US Treasury auctioned off $16 Billion worth of 30 year bonds at 4.38%

Any chance of us getting that kind of return on our $ we are putting in SS?
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if you could guarantee that and just give back the money that was put in I don't see an issue. Well I do since the gov't is taking it and giving it away but that's beside the point

volinbham said:
No other businesses do this PJ - particularly not those in the legal profession. Sheeesh.
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I'm just at a loss at why they think this is evil. And do they honestly think that if the oil companies have to pay more in taxes that they will simply accept $21bil in profit losses? It's also a pittance compared to the trillion dollar deficit but who cares about that.
 
#32
#32
TheDeeble said:
I wish I could opt out of social security. Let me keep my money and I'll forgo a social security check from the govt.
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I would forfeit everything I've pd in the last 20 years and future benefits if they allow me to completely get out of paying in the future.
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#33
#33
Me me me? What about all the parents and grandparents that have been or are on SS now? Safe bet not rely on it and hope it's there. Too many people getting handouts imo. My dad drew one ss disablity check ae 56 died of brain cancer by the time they got his set up got one check. He paid in his entire life, good paying management jobs, worked full time job, part time job at night and worked on weekends and had a business for himself. I'm just saying it's not really fair in a lot of ways. But his drive carries on the his grand daughter MD in Santa Moncia and grandson full time college professor Tennessee (although he never knew this).
 
#34
#34
utfantilidie said:
Me me me? What about all the parents and grandparents that have been or are on SS now? Safe bet not rely on it and hope it's there. Too many people getting handouts imo. My dad drew one ss disablity check ae 56 died of brain cancer by the time they got his set up got one check. He paid in his entire life, good paying management jobs, worked full time job, part time job at night and worked on weekends and had a business for himself. I'm just saying it's not really fair in a lot of ways. But his drive carries on the his grand daughter MD in Santa Moncia and grandson full time college professor Tennessee (although he never knew this).
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did bosgap steal your computer?
 
#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
We are simply going to have to increase taxes on the top 5 percent, repeal the Bush tax cuts altogether, repeal big oil subsidies, extend retirement qualification age by 2-3 years, and cut defense.

Social Security, Medicare to run short sooner than expected - May. 13, 2011
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No. We are simply going to have to get more people producing and fewer people consuming without producing.

Imagine the country as a big factory. You can afford a few people that contribute little to nothing while getting paid. You can afford some retirees. But there comes a point when the product produced by those actually working cannot support eveyone who shows up on pay day. We are at that point plus about 30% or more.

When SSI was designed, the avg life expectancy was below the SSI retirement age. IOW's, people on avg never drew. We don't have to do that now but we do have to raise the age... AND WE MUST get EVERY able bodied and able minded person on that system to produce. People who are bi-polar have full SSI disability checks. I'm sorry but those people CAN work. It would be good for them to work. Many people with physical disabilities choose to work... too many don't.

Medicare like ALL healthcare needs less gov't and more market to drive costs down.

You STILL don't understand. Gov't does NOT produce wealth or even come close in net terms. Gov't consumes wealth and redistributes it to consumers. THE PROBLEM is that gov't spending has gone well past the point where the economy can support it while remaining healthy.
 
#36
#36
Rasputin_Vol said:
I would forfeit everything I've pd in the last 20 years and future benefits if they allow me to completely get out of paying in the future.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Yep. Nothing like a federally mandated Ponzi Scheme.
 
#38
#38
utvolpj said:
while I understand the point, what has the gov't been doing with my money for 40-50 years if I only get the exact amount back out? Doesn't seem like a solid investment to me
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Your post displays the classic misunderstanding that most of the U.S. population has with respect to social security deductions taken out of their paychecks. Your money is NOT sitting in an investment account. It is being paid out to current retirees.
 
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
I think a lot of people in my age range (47) and who are directly affected arguably the most by this, have already come to understand and accept that full retirement will be more like 67 than 65.

But cutting benefits or taxing them (which effectively cuts them) is not something most people would agree to. Your proposal reeks of placing more of the burden on the middle class, which is what is blowing up in your collective face vis-a-vis the Ryan plan.

Cliffs:

1) Extending retirement age and eligibility for SS is politically doable, especially if in conjunction with salvaging of Medicare in close to current form.

2) Taxing SS benefits, means testing benefits, or cuts in benefits, will never, ever, ever pass because rightfully seen as another backdoor tax break for the wealthiest.
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This is unbelievable garbage. The old are re richest people in this country. By a decent margin. Taxing social security is raping the rich. Fully tax it and its taxed at their tax bracket and last time I checked we have a progressive tax system where 50% of this country doesn't pay taxes. How in the world is this screwing the middle class? Social security itself iswhat is screwing the middle class.
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#42
#42
Vol423 said:
Your post displays the classic misunderstanding that most of the U.S. population has with respect to social security deductions taken out of their paychecks. Your money is NOT sitting in an investment account. It is being paid out to current retirees.
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Pretty much what Maddoff went to jail for, right?
 
#43
#43
Vol423 said:
:eek:lol:That's among the dumbest posts that I've ever seen in this forum. Like ANY politician would ever even have the guts to utter these words.
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That's a huge part of the problem. You can't discuss real solutions because both sides are ready to scare seniors if you do.

We can't have an honest conversation.
 
#44
#44
sjt18 said:
That's a huge part of the problem. You can't discuss real solutions because both sides are ready to scare seniors if you do.

We can't have an honest conversation.
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Have you ever given any thought to the notion that, for people 50ish and above, the Ryan plan IS scary? And for good reason?
 
#45
#45
I don't see what's so irresponsible for people in their 50s planning on receiving something they've paid into their entire lives. I mean, my parents need it. Sure they have sizeable individual retirement funds, but that doesn't mean they don't need SS when they've paid into it and planned for it. Plus how much strain are putting on the job market by keeping older people working instead of allowing new workers in the workforce. I would guess 80% of recent college graduates don't have jobs when they graduate. I mean it sucks that people a lot of boomers haven't planned well for retirement, but that doesn't mean only those who didn't need SS. A lot of responsible people planned on needing both.
 
#46
#46
Rasputin_Vol said:
I would forfeit everything I've pd in the last 20 years and future benefits if they allow me to completely get out of paying in the future.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Solid attitude.

I kinda feel the same way. Sad part is what you are currently paying in is paying or going to pay for some else retiring well before you retire. And from the sounds of it, the longer it goes the worse its gonna get. I don't buy the idea that everyone will be happy in the end. Its pretty obvious somebodys gonna get shorted. (Should have never happened), but at this point the government needs to get out of the piggy bank business altogether. Their bank has too many holes for my money.
 
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