Bama Recruiting Violation?

In this case, you are accepting hearsay evidence with no corroboration as "proof" and I need more than that to be convinced.

I never said I accepted anything. To be honest, there is other stuff going that is even worse than this. As far as his parents, don't blame them for being upset at all about the situation.

She has no first hand knowledge either.
You don't know that.

And, no, she can't sue me for slander (actually it would be libel). For me to have libeled her, I would have had to make a statement that was knowingly false and malicious.

I would say she could have a possible case against you, you admit she is a liar but you have no evidence that she is lied but that is my opinion.

If she were to claim that me calling her a liar is knowingly false, she'd have to prove what she said was true.

Correct, she could just get on the stand and say the girl told me she was getting a job in the office and your ass would be toast.

Either way, don't blame the parents for being upset especially the handler. I will be glad when the recruit signs tomorrow and brings her boy with her. The whole setup is beyond strange.
 
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I never said I accepted anything. To be honest, there is other stuff going that is even worse than this. As far as his parents, don't blame them for being upset at all about the situation.

You keep saying that without saying what the worse stuff is.


You don't know that.

Unless she was in Coach Saban's office when he offered the gf a gig, then she heard it from someone else, and that's hearsay. And with all the talking she's done, I'm pretty sure she would have mentioned if she'd actually been present when the offer happened.



I would say she could have a possible case against you, you admit she is a liar but you have no evidence that she is lied but that is my opinion.

She'd have to prove that she's not a liar. Calling someone a liar isn't libel. If someone sues me for calling them a liar, then that person has to prove that he/she told the truth. The burden of proof is always on the one making the accusation of libel.



Correct, she could just get on the stand and say the girl told me she was getting a job in the office and your ass would be toast.

Not quite. The girl would have to admit to telling her. And then she would have to prove that I had reason to know that she was telling the truth. If the girl comes out and backs up her story, and someone at Alabama confirms the offer, and I continue to call her a liar, then I've made a statement that was knowingly false. As of now, there are many more reasons for me to think she's lying, and as such, calling her a liar cannot be considered making a knowingly false statement.
 
She'd have to prove that she's not a liar. Calling someone a liar isn't libel. If someone sues me for calling them a liar, then that person has to prove that he/she told the truth. The burden of proof is always on the one making the accusation of libel.

And all she has to do is say the girl told (or whatever) and the jury would believe her unless you can prove her wrong. It's as simple as that.

"Slander is a form of defamation that results when a false and defamatory statement is spoken about a person (as opposed to written about a person). Slander results in injury to the person’s character or reputation. Slander does not occur just because the statement is annoying, offensive, or embarrassing to a person; the statement must reasonably hold the person up to public hatred, contempt, or ridicule.
In order to prove slander, the plaintiff must prove that the statement was communicated to another person other than the plaintiff (called publication) knowing that the statement was false or without taking appropriate steps to determine whether the statement was true.
The standard for slander differs if the person about whom the statement is spoken is a public figure. The law of who is a public figure is very complicated, but people like famous actors and national politicians are almost always considered to be public figures. It is harder for public figures to prove a slander case.
A person accused of slandering another person can defend him/herself by proving the truth of the statement.
In addition, there are several exceptions to slander law that prevent some false and defamatory statements from forming the basis of a slander action. For example, statements made in the course of a judicial proceeding that are relevant to the issues involved in the proceeding cannot form the basis of a slander action"


Each state is different of course, those are the general requirements in Tennessee. In TN. it must be filed in 6 mos. The statements you have made could be libel and slander.

Unless she was in Coach Saban's office when he offered the gf a gig, then she heard it from someone else, and that's hearsay.
Hearsay can be admitted depending on the circumstance, in the case of NCAA infractions its actually allowed. In the case, if you were sued she can say she was told that, but she can't say whether that actually happened or not. Either way your ass would be in a bind because based on the information she might have been given her statements were true as far as she is concerned.
 
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And all she has to do is say the girl told (or whatever) and the jury would believe her unless you can prove her wrong. It's as simple as that.

"Slander is a form of defamation that results when a false and defamatory statement is spoken about a person (as opposed to written about a person). Slander results in injury to the person’s character or reputation. Slander does not occur just because the statement is annoying, offensive, or embarrassing to a person; the statement must reasonably hold the person up to public hatred, contempt, or ridicule.
In order to prove slander, the plaintiff must prove that the statement was communicated to another person other than the plaintiff (called publication) knowing that the statement was false or without taking appropriate steps to determine whether the statement was true.
The standard for slander differs if the person about whom the statement is spoken is a public figure. The law of who is a public figure is very complicated, but people like famous actors and national politicians are almost always considered to be public figures. It is harder for public figures to prove a slander case.
A person accused of slandering another person can defend him/herself by proving the truth of the statement.
In addition, there are several exceptions to slander law that prevent some false and defamatory statements from forming the basis of a slander action. For example, statements made in the course of a judicial proceeding that are relevant to the issues involved in the proceeding cannot form the basis of a slander action"


Each state is different of course, those are the general requirements in Tennessee. In TN. it must be filed in 6 mos. The statements you have made could be libel and slander.


Hearsay can be admitted depending on the circumstance, in the case of NCAA infractions its actually allowed. In the case, if you were sued she can say she was told that, but she can't say whether that actually happened or not. Either way your ass would be in a bind because based on the information she might have been given her statements were true as far as she is concerned.

We've got a regular Clarence Darrow on our hands.
 
And all she has to do is say the girl told (or whatever) and the jury would believe her unless you can prove her wrong. It's as simple as that.

If her entire case was "the girl told me", and the jury awarded her damages based only on that, it would be thrown out on appeal. If the girl actually testified that she told Ms Justin, then that would be a different story. But she'd also have to prove that I knew she was telling the truth, so I would have had to be made aware of the girl's corroboration prior to the suit being filed AND I would have had to keep calling her a liar in spite of the corroboration.

In order to prove slander, the plaintiff must prove that the statement was communicated to another person other than the plaintiff (called publication) knowing that the statement was false or without taking appropriate steps to determine whether the statement was true.



The appropriate steps qualification is a matter for the court. In this case, someone at the Bama AD's office, whom I have no reason to doubt, told me that the job offer never happened. I wouldn't need to take any steps further than that. He could be lying, but again, I have no way of knowing that he is, and Ms Justin hasn't offered any evidence that she's telling the truth. Until she does so, calling her a liar cannot be libelous.


In the case, if you were sued she can say she was told that, but she can't say whether that actually happened or not. Either way your ass would be in a bind because based on the information she might have been given her statements were true as far as she is concerned.

It doesn't matter whether it was true "as far as she was concerned." She may not be aware that she's lying, but if she's saying something that isn't actually true, then I cannot libel her by calling her a liar. She made a definitive statement. It's not my responsibility to determine whether she made that statement based upon inaccurate information. That would automatically destroy the "knowingly false" requirement.

The statements you have made could be libel and slander.

No they couldn't.

I'll tell you what: you've parroted Justin's claims numerous times, and when I've asked for even a shred of proof, you've offered none. I have absolutely no reason to believe that you are telling the truth, and many reasons to believe that you are not. That said:

YOU'RE A LIAR!

Sue me. Sue me for libel. I will happily give my information to a mod or webmaster so that you can subpoena me. You may sue me in TN or whereever you reside. Just make sure you have enough money to pay my court costs before you file, because I will request them when I get a judgement in my favor.
 
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Hey Bama, Did you already know about Saban being homo? I just heard the news and it surprised me.
 
14. Although the '41 claim is dubious. Still, 9 wire service championships is the best in the nation.

I don't care if it is 9 or 14. What I do care about is the present and 2 NC in 3 years. No one can argue with that and the fact that Alabama has a winning record over every team in the SEC. Even when Alabama had "down years" none of the other teams of the SEC could overtake this record. It feels good to not a have losing record to any SEC schools. I remember when Coach Saban made his first press release when he got to AL, he made the statement " I want the other team to look across the field , and say "I hate having to play those guys" Think that has pretty much been accomplished.
 
This sounds illegal. Does this type of thing happen often? If not, why? Sounds like an easy way to get a top recruit. Every coach should take advantage.
 
I don't care if it is 9 or 14. What I do care about is the present and 2 NC in 3 years. No one can argue with that and the fact that Alabama has a winning record over every team in the SEC. Even when Alabama had "down years" none of the other teams of the SEC could overtake this record. It feels good to not a have losing record to any SEC schools. I remember when Coach Saban made his first press release when he got to AL, he made the statement " I want the other team to look across the field , and say "I hate having to play those guys" Think that has pretty much been accomplished.

Whoopty do. Neyland was a better coach than Bryant. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 
If her entire case was "the girl told me", and the jury awarded her damages based only on that, it would be thrown out on appeal.
There is nothing to appeal as that would be fact finding done by the jury or judge during trial.

Seriously, give it up, you didn't even know what evidence was.

If the girl actually testified that she told Ms Justin, then that would be a different story.
No, you took no steps to confirm she was lying and you will have nothing to show that she lied.

The appropriate steps qualification is a matter for the court. In this case, someone at the Bama AD's office, whom I have no reason to doubt, told me that the job offer never happened. I wouldn't need to take any steps further than that. He could be lying, but again, I have no way of knowing that he is, and Ms Justin hasn't offered any evidence that she's telling the truth. Until she does so, calling her a liar cannot be libelous.

Your comments maybe premature as you took no steps, if you say there is no information before you to confirm whether she is telling the truth is much different than telling someone on a public forum they are a liar without taking steps to confirm.

It doesn't matter whether it was true "as far as she was concerned." She may not be aware that she's lying, but if she's saying something that isn't actually true, then I cannot libel her by calling her a liar.

Lying is not the same as being mistaken, she might be mistaken or she might have lied. You said she is lying, that is not the same thing as being mistaken.

She made a definitive statement. It's not my responsibility to determine whether she made that statement based upon inaccurate information.

You have nothing to confirm she made a incorrect statement nor that she has inaccurate information... you drew your own conclusion based on your fanboyism, not on facts.

I'll tell you what: you've parroted Justin's claims numerous times, and when I've asked for even a shred of proof, you've offered none.

You have provided no evidence anyone is crazy or a liar but Collin's mom did provide possibly testimony that bama has offered a job. You want someone to convince you, that is not evidence.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that you are telling the truth, and many reasons to believe that you are not. That said:

YOU'RE A LIAR!

What am I lying about? Curious minds would love to know.

Sue me. Sue me for libel. I will happily give my information to a mod or webmaster so that you can subpoena me. You may sue me in TN or whereever you reside. Just make sure you have enough money to pay my court costs before you file, because I will request them when I get a judgement in my favor.

Your defensive stance again shows through. You are calling everyone crazy and liars yet you asked for evidence and you provided no evidence that anyone is crazy or a liar.

People do get sued for slander all the time. I have no reason to sue you, as people can see that you don't live by the same standards you expect others to live by... that is enough for me. No could I show damages because my ID is not known.

At this point, I would slow down if I were you and read, now all of a sudden I am a liar, I don't even know what you are even talking about.
 
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This sounds illegal. Does this type of thing happen often? If not, why? Sounds like an easy way to get a top recruit. Every coach should take advantage.

Not really covered by the NCAA, although there are some coverage in other sports. It's a tactic that is used from time to time.
 
How could in any way offering a Girlfriend be a violation... she could just as well be his ex tomorrow.... morally it would be kinda shady but seriously... fairly slick.

The mom..just wow I too had one of those when I was in College (early 90's) mine was a tad clingy too. I was on full scholly (academic) and working 2 jobs. Got a pager so my mom could keep in contact. My mom saw this as a sign I was selling drugs, because for me to be able to afford the 9.95 payment each month clearly pointed to this line of work in her mind. She went to my sponsor with this and it lead to me losing my scholly. I ended up joining the Navy and everything turned out ok on my part but the rift and bitterness is still there.
 
How could in any way offering a Girlfriend be a violation... she could just as well be his ex tomorrow.... morally it would be kinda shady but seriously... fairly slick.

You would have to talk to the NCAA, it is my take this is not a violation for football. As far as the NCAA, well I think the whole system is a crock so I kind of agree with there.

Actually something like this happened at LSU with Russell Shepard... Shepard moved in with his GF who was a student worker at LSU. LSU found out and told him he had to find other living arrangement. His GF was at LSU prior to Shepard being on campus by a year or two.
 
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SIU,

I'm not a lawyer, but basic journalism courses teach the standards for libel and slander. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're not even aware that if someone files a lawsuit, it's on the suing party to prove their case. It wouldn't be on me to prove that the plaintiff lied, it would be on the plaintiff to prove they told the truth and I knew it, which is 100% impossible to do in this case.
 
SIU,

I'm not a lawyer, but basic journalism courses teach the standards for libel and slander. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're not even aware that if someone files a lawsuit, it's on the suing party to prove their case.

You don't even know what evidence is. All they have to do is prove you made the statement, provide testimony how she knows what she said. The burden would be switched to you after her testimony if you can't refute.

It wouldn't be on me to prove that the plaintiff lied, it would be on the plaintiff to prove they told the truth and I knew it, which is 100% impossible to do in this case.

They don't have to prove you knew it was not true, they only have to show you took no steps to ensure what you said was correct or true.

People get sued for slander all the time, which is why real journalist rarely if ever call anyone a liar. Slander laws are different in all the 50 states, a 101 journalism class isn't going to help you. You actually admit most of what they would need to show which is you didn't know the statement you made was correct nor did you take any steps to confirm that your statements were correct.

As far as collins, I will be glad when today is over so that the recruit and her boy are gone.
 
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You don't even know what evidence is. All they have to do is prove you made the statement, provide testimony how she knows what she said. The burden would be switched to you after her testimony if you can't refute.

The burden is never switched to the defendant in either criminal or civil matters. The burden is always on the plaintiff, though the burden of proof is lessened in civil matters. If the plaintiff rests their case, and the defense doesn't think the plaintiff proved their case, the defense can rest without saying a word.

I highlighted your first sentence because it is extremely important. You are correct that I don't know what the evidence is, because she hasn't provided any. She has simply made her accusation, but has provided nothing to back it up. No one else has supported her story. She has no documentation. She has absolutely no corroboration. On top of that, a contact at the Bama AD's office told me her accusation is false. As such, I have no reason to believe that what she says is true, and I've made effort to determine if it is or isn't. There is no way for her to prove that what I said was knowingly false when I said it. If she provides corroboration, and I continue to call her a liar, only then would I be at risk of libel, because only then would I have cause to know that she wasn't lying.

She can't continue to provide no evidence, sue me, and then provide all her evidence in court, because I wouldn't have been made aware of the truth until we were in court. I would have had to know the truth when I called her a liar, not when she presented her case before a judge/jury.


They don't have to prove you knew it was not true, they only have to show you took no steps to ensure what you said was correct or true.

But I did. You may not think I went far enough. But given that she's provided no corroboration, simply asking one source is more than enough effort to confirm my assumption that she is lying. It's extremely easy to discredit someone who doesn't make any effort to support their claims.

People get sued for slander all the time, which is why real journalist rarely if ever call anyone a liar. Slander laws are different in all the 50 states, a 101 journalism class isn't going to help you. You actually admit most of what they would need to show which is you didn't know the statement you made was correct nor did you take any steps to confirm that your statements were correct.

Again, I asked a source. But I know way more than what my source told me. I won't bore you with all the details, but it's almost impossible that what she told the Birmingham News is accurate.
 
The burden is never switched to the defendant in either criminal or civil matters. The burden is always on the plaintiff, though the burden of proof is lessened in civil matters. If the plaintiff rests their case, and the defense doesn't think the plaintiff proved their case, the defense can rest without saying a word.

It sure does, if someone gives testimony and the testimony is not refuted than the burden is going to be upon the opposing party. Without the ability to refute the testimony you lose.


On top of that, a contact at the Bama AD's office told me her accusation is false.
Who?When? Where?

Really irrelevant, that does not mean Collins Mom is lying. You called her a liar, you did not claim she was mistaken.

As such, I have no reason to believe that what she says is true, and I've made effort to determine if it is or isn't. There is no way for her to prove that what I said was knowingly false when I said it. If she provides corroboration, and I continue to call her a liar, only then would I be at risk of libel, because only then would I have cause to know that she wasn't lying.

Again, buddy she does not have to prove she isn't lying. She can tell her version and unless you can show she is lying the jury or the judge is going to believe whatever testimony is given. In this case, you have nothing that would suggest she is lying... she could be just mistaken and you have not contacted her to find out if she is mistaken or lying or neither.

She can't continue to provide no evidence, sue me, and then provide all her evidence in court, because I wouldn't have been made aware of the truth until we were in court. I would have had to know the truth when I called her a liar, not when she presented her case before a judge/jury.

Evidence is her testimony, again you do not even know what evidence is, which again is your problem as you keep asking for evidence but you don't know what that is.

But I did. You may not think I went far enough.
No, not necessarily, you claimed people need evidence, but you don't know what that is, then you claim someone is a liar and then provide nothing but your gut I guess to make that determination as you had no evidence.

Again, I asked a source. But I know way more than what my source told me. I won't bore you with all the details, but it's almost impossible that what she told the Birmingham News is accurate.

It's irrelevant, you called her a liar, not the same thing as someone being mistaken or given incorrect information. A liar is one that has given false information on purpose or knowing, yet you have provided nothing to sustain that claim.

Now if you want to say she is mistaken and quote your sources than that is only evidence to contrary that she is either lying or mistaken, but in your case you have nothing.

You could be right, maybe she is a liar, she might be correct, and she might be mistaken.... you don't know. Real journalist rarely if ever call someone a liar. Even murder suspects they will say alleged, why? Common freaking sense.

There is a big difference between calling someone a liar and telling someone there are mistaken. Not the same thing at all.
 
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It sure does, if someone gives testimony and the testimony is not refuted than the burden is going to be upon the opposing party. Without the ability to refute the testimony you lose.

Only if her testimony is believable. If she were on the stand and told the same story that she did the Bham News and that sports mom website, a defense attorney would ask "How do you know this? Can you provide proof that your claims are true?" If she can't, then her testimony is absolutely worthless. In fact, if she were to say "I heard this from _________" and _________ didn't appear in court to back her up, then her entire testimony would be stricken from the record because it is uncorroborated hearsay. Hearsay testimony is only allowed as evidence if it can be corroborated.


Really irrelevant, that does not mean Collins Mom is lying. You called her a liar, you did not claim she was mistaken.

I don't think she is mistaken, I think she's lying. I'm not sure why you're confused about that.


Again, buddy she does not have to prove she isn't lying. She can tell her version and unless you can show she is lying the jury or the judge is going to believe whatever testimony is given.

Um, actually, the exact opposite is true. If she sues me for libel, then she has to PROVE that what I said was false. If she simply repeats what she's already said, without corroborating it, then my entire case is that she's lying. If she can't prove that she told the truth, then I can't libel her by calling her a liar. She has to PROVE that what I said was false. Simply repeating what I claimed was a lie doesn't refute my claim. Her testimony isn't believable unless it can be corroborated.

In this case, you have nothing that would suggest she is lying... she could be just mistaken and you have not contacted her to find out if she is mistaken or lying or neither.

Contacting her would be useless. Why would she say anything different than she's already said? And given how much she's talked, if she had back up, she'd have presented it. And if she's mistaken, that's fine. But she would have to clear that up. For it to be libel, she'd have to clear up the mistake, and I'd have to keep calling her a liar.

Evidence is her testimony, again you do not even know what evidence is, which again is your problem as you keep asking for evidence but you don't know what that is.

Again, I don't know what the evidence is because she hasn't produced any. If she were to do so, at that point I could determine whether or not I think she's lying based on that proof. But one person's uncorroborated testimony isn't evidence of anything.


No, not necessarily, you claimed people need evidence, but you don't know what that is, then you claim someone is a liar and then provide nothing but your gut I guess to make that determination as you had no evidence.

There are many different forms of evidence she could present to prove her claims are true. Even one other person's testimony would be more than she has right now. If she were to sue me, and she was the entire plaintiff's witness list, and she has no evidence other than what she's presented up to now, then the case would be thrown out in summary judgement. It wouldn't even make it to trial.


It's irrelevant, you called her a liar, not the same thing as someone being mistaken or given incorrect information. A liar is one that has given false information on purpose or knowing, yet you have provided nothing to sustain that claim.

Now if you want to say she is mistaken and quote your sources than that is only evidence to contrary that she is either lying or mistaken, but in your case you have nothing.

I don't actually need anything. I need nothing at all. Again, if you sue someone for libel, the defendant does not have to prove that his statement was true, you have to prove that his statement was false. She would have to prove that I was making a knowingly false statement by calling her a liar. In the courtroom, she would be the accuser, and I would be the accused. You seem to think that her story is all that she needs, but her story is the basis for my statement. Her story doesn't prove me wrong.

I simply know that what she's claiming isn't true; she can only by lying or mistaken. And if she's mistaken, it's not my fault that she's mistaken. I'm not legally bound to give her that benefit of the doubt. Given the serious nature of her allegations, it should really be on her to confirm them before she makes them public. If she takes a mistaken allegation to the papers, she has to accept that accusations of lying could reasonably result from that mistake. Further, if she were to come out and admit that she was mistaken, I would stop calling her a liar, and simply say that she was extremely foolish for making statements that she hadn't confirmed. Either way, I haven't libeled her.

You could be right, maybe she is a liar, she might be correct, and she might be mistaken.... you don't know. Real journalist rarely if ever call someone a liar. Even murder suspects they will say alleged, why? Common freaking sense.

And if this were in an article or column with my byline, I wouldn't take on her claims with the same veracity. But since I'm on an internet message board, I'm not bound by any journalistic code of ethics. I have no obligation to be fair on volnation.com.


There is a big difference between calling someone a liar and telling someone there are mistaken. Not the same thing at all.

Of course. But saying something untrue automatically opens you up to accusations of lying. It's the risk you take you when make unsubstantiated claims in a public setting. I have absolutely no legal, ethical, or practical obligation to assume she is mistaken rather than lying. None whatsoever.
 
Look man, you don't know what evidence is... I am not going to over yet another wall of text that goes to the same point. Journalist don't call people liars like you did. Calling someone a liar is not the same as telling them they are mistaken.

You can go on and on but you are losing all credibility. IMHO

Real journalist usually refrain from what you are doing. Lets just quit it, what is so funny about this whole thing is you are being defensive about something that isn't even a violation. Extremely defensive comes to mind.

My last post on this. Can't wait till the recruit tells her boy to sign on the dotted line for her.

I have absolutely no legal, ethical, or practical obligation to assume she is mistaken rather than lying.

Exactly, you are speculating which equals no credibility. I am sure Star magazine usually puts up this defense as well.

Ole well, I am out.
 
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Look man, you don't know what evidence is... I am not going to over yet another wall of text that goes to the same point. Journalist don't call people liars like you did. Calling someone a liar is not the same as telling them they are mistaken.

You can go on and on but you are losing all credibility. IMHO

Real journalist usually refrain from what you are doing. Lets just quit it, what is so funny about this whole thing is you are being defensive about something that isn't even a violation. Extremely defensive comes to mind.

Dear God, man. Do you actually think posting on an internet message board equates to journalism? Are you that thick?
 

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