Barnard King on ESPN right now

#26
#26
If Bernard King is not on the top 20 list of best college basketball players then the list is a joke. Outside of Pistol Pete no player was as difficult to guard and dominating in the paint. As for not being on the Olympic team it shows how overrated as a coach Dean Smith was. If Ray Mears had been healthy to coach the number of years that Smith did, Mears would have had the most wins or certainly close. People tend to forget Mears won with far less talent than Dean Smith. He is the only coach with a .500 record against Rupp.
 
#27
#27
Mini Me said:
They had a ESPNU special on the other day titled "The 20 Greatest College Basketball Players". I though Bernard King should have made it. Especially over guys like Tim Duncan and Michael Jordan.
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I didn't see the show, but I have a hard time feeling that King got slighted by the inclusion of the two guys you mention.
 
#28
#28
The show was based solely on college basketball careers and domination of players while in college. Jordan and Duncan were great college basketball players, but I feel like King was better than both at the college level. I felt that Jordan and Duncan may have made this list based on their NBA accomplishments.

King was a force when he played. He dominated and is considered top four or five ever to play in the SEC (behind Pistol Pete, Barkley and Shaq). King was an All america all three years at UT and the SEC player of year three times. King average a double-double for his career (25 pts and 13 boards) and scored over 1900 pts and grabbed over 1000 rebounds in only 76 games. For his career, he averaged 8 points more than Jordan and 9 points more than Duncan. To top this off, at 6'7", he average more rebounds and shot a high FG % than 7 footer Duncan. Duncan was a dominate big man, but never took his team beyond the Elite 8. Prior to his arrival, WF went to the sweet 16 and was already a great team. Jordan was great player, and did win a NC at UNC and had that defining moment against Georgetown. So I can see the argument for him.

Overall, I feel that King is in the top 20 greatest college players ever and in the top 100 greatest NBA players ever. Hopefully he will be in the NBA HOF soon.
 
#29
#29
Mini Me said:
The show was based solely on college basketball careers and domination of players while in college. Jordan and Duncan were great college basketball players, but I feel like King was better than both at the college level. I felt that Jordan and Duncan may have made this list based on their NBA accomplishments.

King was a force when he played. He dominated and is considered top four or five ever to play in the SEC (behind Pistol Pete, Barkley and Shaq). King was an All america all three years at UT and the SEC player of year three times. King average a double-double for his career (25 pts and 13 boards) and scored over 1900 pts and grabbed over 1000 rebounds in only 76 games. For his career, he averaged 8 points more than Jordan and 9 points more than Duncan. To top this off, at 6'7", he average more rebounds and shot a high FG % than 7 footer Duncan. Duncan was a dominate big man, but never took his team beyond the Elite 8. Prior to his arrival, WF went to the sweet 16 and was already a great team. Jordan was great player, and did win a NC at UNC and had that defining moment against Georgetown. So I can see the argument for him.

Overall, I feel that King is in the top 20 greatest college players ever and in the top 100 greatest NBA players ever. Hopefully he will be in the NBA HOF soon.
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You're ripping Duncan because his team never made the Final Four, yet you're advocating for a guy whose teams never won a single NCAA Tournament game. Interesting.
 
#30
#30
hatvol96 said:
You're ripping Duncan because his team never made the Final Four, yet you're advocating for a guy whose teams never won a single NCAA Tournament game. Interesting.
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Saying that I am "ripping" Duncan is an exaggeration. Duncan was great college player. Wake Forest, was a really good team making it to the Sweet 16 prior to Duncan getting there with Rodney Rodgers. Duncan struggled early in his career at WF. With a talented WF team, and two big men (Duncan & Woods), winning in the NCAA tournament was a given for them. Not making a final four was an underachievement for that team.

The comparison between King and Duncan was in regard to the 20 greatest college basketball players ever. ESPNU had a special on that and ranked Duncan somewhere between 15 - 20. Jordan was also in that range. I was stating that King should be in the top 20 somewhere (probaby in the 15 - 20 range). Overall, King had a better college career and took UT to tournament twice (when it was a field of 32). Yeah, he did not win a game, but he is one of the most dominating players in college history.
 
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#31
#31
Mini Me said:
Saying that I am "ripping" Duncan is an exaggeration. Duncan was great college player. Wake Forest, was a really good team making it to the Sweet 16 prior to Duncan getting there with Rodney Rodgers. Duncan struggled early in his career at WF. With a talented WF team, and two big men (Duncan & Woods), winning in the NCAA tournament was a given for them. Not making a final four was an underachievement for that team.

The comparison between King and Duncan was in regard to the 20 greatest college basketball players ever. ESPNU had a special on that and ranked Duncan somewhere between 15 - 20. Jordan was also in that range. I was stating that King should be in the top 20 somewhere (probaby in the 15 - 20 range). Overall, King had a better college career and took UT to tournament twice (when it was a field of 32). Yeah, he did not win a game, but he is one of the most dominating players college history.
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Loren Woods was awful.
 
#32
#32
In hindsight yeah he was, but at the time he was the "man". In high school he was right there along the lines of Kobe Bryant and Jermaine O'Neal. I think he was a top ten recruit.

Nevertheless, Duncan was a great college player, maybe my rant about not taking WF further in the tournament should not have been used to prove King was better but instead the stats speaking for themselves.
 
#33
#33
Mini Me said:
The show was based solely on college basketball careers and domination of players while in college. Jordan and Duncan were great college basketball players, but I feel like King was better than both at the college level.
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Jordan and Duncan both hold awards for being the top player in college basketball, and I don't think that there is any question that both rank among the most dominant in history at the college level.

At best, your argument is about a marginal, subjective difference. At worst, you are simply looking at the situation through orange glasses.
 
#34
#34
Mini Me said:
In hindsight yeah he was, but at the time he was the "man". In high school he was right there along the lines of Kobe Bryant and Jermaine O'Neal. I think he was a top ten recruit.

Nevertheless, Duncan was a great college player, maybe my rant about not taking WF further in the tournament should not have been used to prove King was better but instead the stats speaking for themselves.
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Don't get me wrong, I happen to think King is the best player to ever come out of the SEC. I just think using Duncan and Jordan to make the point that Bernard was underrated by that list is a bad idea.
 
#35
#35
I would take King (with 2 healthy knees),Pistol Pete,Shaq, and John Wall and play anybody 4 on 5 - the king and its court
 
#36
#36
These type of lists are very subjective, and people will get omitted and some will be rated higher than deserved depending on varying opinions. The fact is that King was a three time All American and the three time SEC POY winner. He has college career avg of 25.8 points and 13.5 rebounds. Voters can justify him on this list with his accomplishments.

On a side note about Jordan, his 1982 UNC team had James Worthy and Sam Perkins. They were a very talented team and Jordan was not the center piece of that team. Another guy that I thought deserved consideration on the greatest player list was Hakeem Olajuwon. He also has the credentials to be honored.

Well, I am new to this board and love to talk sports. It was good talking to you guys. While I did graduate from UT (and do occasionally wear orange glasses), I grew up all over and actually followed a lot of teams from the different places I have lived (due to military moves). UNC basketball in the 80s and 90s is actually some of fondest basketball memories since I was there during those times.
 
#37
#37
VOLnMiami said:
The biggest insult was when Bernard was left off the olympic team when Dean Smith was the coach...He brought two or three of his own players to play instead of Bernard...The announcers even said during one of the games that they were amazed Bernard wasn't on the team and that it was an injustice.
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No surprise. Dean Smith is a giant douche.
 
#38
#38
Mini Me said:
These type of lists are very subjective, and people will get omitted and some will be rated higher than deserved depending on varying opinions. The fact is that King was a three time All American and the three time SEC POY winner. He has college career avg of 25.8 points and 13.5 rebounds. Voters can justify him on this list with his accomplishments.
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I don't have any issue with that. However, you can't put him on without taking somebody off. Duncan and Jordan, the two you mention, have just as strong or stronger credentials for inclusion than King.

I don't know who else was on the list. One ESPN list, published on by birthday, BTW, can be found here:

25 Greatest Players In College Basketball - Men's College Basketball - ESPN
 
#39
#39
cotton said:
I don't have any issue with that. However, you can't put him on without taking somebody off. Duncan and Jordan, the two you mention, have just as strong or stronger credentials for inclusion than King.

I don't know who else was on the list. One ESPN list, published on by birthday, BTW, can be found here:

25 Greatest Players In College Basketball - Men's College Basketball - ESPN
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Maravich is so wildly overrated it's not funny. You'd think basketball people would quit exalting a circus act to that extent.
 
#40
#40
hatvol96 said:
Maravich is so wildly overrated it's not funny. You'd think basketball people would quit exalting a circus act to that extent.
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"Greatest" is so ambiguous, and the differences in eras are so great, that it makes lists like those no more than interesting topics for arguments.

I don't know how you are supposed to measure, but I have a really hard time looking at a list of greatest college players and not seeing Danny Manning's name, for instance.
 
#41
#41
cotton said:
"Greatest" is so ambiguous, and the differences in eras are so great, that it makes lists like those no more than interesting topics for arguments.

I don't know how you are supposed to measure, but I have a really hard time looking at a list of greatest college players and not seeing Danny Manning's name, for instance.
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The absence of Glenn Robinson renders the list invalid in my eyes.
 
#42
#42
cotton said:
"Greatest" is so ambiguous, and the differences in eras are so great, that it makes lists like those no more than interesting topics for arguments.

I don't know how you are supposed to measure, but I have a really hard time looking at a list of greatest college players and not seeing Danny Manning's name, for instance.
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Yeah, I agree with you. You could go in circles and list the people who were omitted and generate arguments for them. Danny Manning, Mark Aguirre, Hakeem Olajuwon, Wayman Tisdale, Larry Johnson, and Adrian Dantley all could have made the list.
 
#43
#43
He's one of the few that I've actually met. Him and Dale Ellis. Both are class acts. Bernard was a beast.
 
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