Basic Income

[LouderVol]

Switzerland's voters reject basic income plan - BBC News

The idea is that everyone gets paid by the government no matter what, which would lead to people on welfare being more likely to look for work because they have a guaranteed income vs risking losing their welfare. The guys for it say it will cut welfare more than it costs the government and removes a lot of the red tape associated.

In this case the Swiss voted it down (77% vs 23%) because it would have been given to anyone living in Switzerland and the amendment didn't specify an amount.

I am glad to see it voted down, but a couple other countries and cities are trying it out. Finland is experimenting with 2000 unemployed getting it. Ontario and a couple European cities are going to try it as well.

 

[n_huffhines]

If I could get an unfettered market in exchange for basic income, I'd probably make that trade.

 

[lawgator1]

No amount of welfare reform will cure the three things that ail us.

1) an economy evolving so quickly as based on tech that the workforce can't keep up in terms of being qualified to do it.

2) a middle class squeezed by an increasing cost of living but no income growth.

3) a government that manipulates regulation and the tax code to the point that we have unsustainable centralization of wealth and power.

The last of these could end the country.

 

[LouderVol]

No amount of welfare reform will cure the three things that ail us.

1) an economy evolving so quickly as based on tech that the workforce can't keep up in terms of being qualified to do it.

2) a middle class squeezed by an increasing cost of living but no income growth.

3) a government that manipulates regulation and the tax code to the point that we have unsustainable centralization of wealth and power.

The last of these could end the country.

I think 1 & 2 will take care of themselves. and can't keep up is fear mongering. People have to set aside the idea that they can make a living doing social work and accept that tech is the future. that going to a 2 year tech school is a better solution than 4 years at State U. Tennessee has even made it free. Once you start making them fend for themselves they will figure out tech pretty fast. keep cushioning their fall and they will do what they want and get squeezed.

agree on the last.

 

[ruger1234]

Combined with a flat tax rate, I could see it working. Milton Friedman was a proponent decades ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

 

[n_huffhines]

Combined with a flat tax rate, I could see it working. Milton Friedman was a proponent decades ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

He also pushed for graduated welfare benefits for the employed.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No amount of welfare reform will cure the three things that ail us.

1) an economy evolving so quickly as based on tech that the workforce can't keep up in terms of being qualified to do it.

2) a middle class squeezed by an increasing cost of living but no income growth.

3) a government that manipulates regulation and the tax code to the point that we have unsustainable centralization of wealth and power.

The last of these could end the country.

You sound like an Austrian economist... :blink:

 

[VolStrom]

No amount of welfare reform will cure the three things that ail us.

1) an economy evolving so quickly as based on tech that the workforce can't keep up in terms of being qualified to do it.

2) a middle class squeezed by an increasing cost of living but no income growth.

3) a government that manipulates regulation and the tax code to the point that we have unsustainable centralization of wealth and power.

The last of these could end the country.

I hate to say it, but you're right about most of this. There is no path to riches for the middle class without technical training. The days of leaving high school and going to work at a big ass factory are done.

Factories need technical people for almost every job. I think the next generation is better suited for these skills, but they need training to do it. Knowing how to operate a phone is not a skill like a lot of them think.

 

[CountVolcula]

I prefer to go back to the barter system

The true form of you get what you work for

 

[VolStrom]

I prefer to go back to the barter system

The true form of you get what you work for

What do you do that would be worth trading food for?

 

[Grand Vol]

You sound like an Austrian economist... :blink:

C'mon. Everyone knows LG isn't from Canberra.

"Let's throw another shrimp on the barbie!"

 

[ruger1234]

I hate to say it, but you're right about most of this. There is no path to riches for the middle class without technical training. The days of leaving high school and going to work at a big ass factory are done.

Factories need technical people for almost every job. I think the next generation is better suited for these skills, but they need training to do it. Knowing how to operate a phone is not a skill like a lot of them think.

I work in a big ass factory. There are still lot's of jobs that require just a willingness to work. Combine a work ethic with a willingness to learn and a comfortable middle class life is there for the taking. Some have it, some don't.

Automation and robotics have cut into the need for humans to some point, but it's far from what most people think at this point.

 

[Grand Vol]

3) a government that manipulates regulation and the tax code to the point that we have unsustainable centralization of wealth and power.

The last of these could end the country.

I'd almost like to see a Constitutional Amendment with a balanced budget along with a pure flat tax. Or even broken down into tax brackets.

However...

No loopholes, no deductions, no nothing. You make X amount, you pay X percent. Period. No off shore holdings, no hiding money, no shell companies. Just a simple tax code that would fit on a post card.

 

[CountVolcula]

What do you do that would be worth trading food for?

I can do just about anything

Comes from not having a lot and having to work on stuff myself

 

[Biopsyman]

Taxes are the single biggest barrier to building wealth. Most are taxed at 50% or greater of income when all taxes are added together.
Federal Income
SS
Medicare
State Income taxes
Property Tax
Capital Gains

 

[Velo Vol]

So there's going to be 50 million jobs for coders?

 

[lawgator1]

Taxes are the single biggest barrier to building wealth. Most are taxed at 50% or greater of income when all taxes are added together.
Federal Income
SS
Medicare
State Income taxes
Property Tax
Capital Gains

Not if you are at the top. And that's the problem.

 

[SergeantVol]

Not if you are at the top. And that's the problem.

Taxing the wealthy should be the issue, not high income earners. Most high income earners have worked their way to where they are. Taxing them at a high rate creates no incentive for people to excel. The wealthy on the other hand, have assets that are accumulated over time.

 

[1972 Grad]

C'mon. Everyone knows LG isn't from Canberra.

"Let's throw another shrimp on the barbie!"

I see what you did there.

 

[lawgator1]

Taxing the wealthy should be the issue, not high income earners. Most high income earners have worked their way to where they are. Taxing them at a high rate creates no incentive for people to excel. The wealthy on the other hand, have assets that are accumulated over time.

It's not a question of targeting anyone. It's a question of fundamental equity.

 

[Ernest T. Vol]

Taxing the wealthy should be the issue, not high income earners. Most high income earners have worked their way to where they are. Taxing them at a high rate creates no incentive for people to excel. The wealthy on the other hand, have assets that are accumulated over time.

Taxing wealth also creates "no incentive" to save.

 

[Madscientistvol]

What we need is to find a way to deal with aging populations without having to replace them with younger individuals. A great many of our long term problems really need the total population of the world to go down and our economic model does not like that.

We can't even give our retired elderly population a living retirement wage, what makes these fools think they can make basic income for everyone work?

 

[Biopsyman]

It's not a question of targeting anyone. It's a question of fundamental equity.

You are no one else can justify taking 50% of anyone's income regardless of how much they make it's fundamentally wrong

 

[Biopsyman]

Taxing the wealthy should be the issue, not high income earners. Most high income earners have worked their way to where they are. Taxing them at a high rate creates no incentive for people to excel. The wealthy on the other hand, have assets that are accumulated over time.

you must have income to remain wealthy... game over

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Taxing the wealthy should be the issue, not high income earners. Most high income earners have worked their way to where they are. Taxing them at a high rate creates no incentive for people to excel. The wealthy on the other hand, have assets that are accumulated over time.

The fundamental flaw in this argument is that high earners would be satisfied being poor. They won't. They will continue to earn.