Bernie Sanders Thread

#876
#876
Kingston Vol said:
Income inequality refers to the amount paid to the average worker at a corporation vs. the CEO of the organization. Of course the CEO should be and is paid more, but "rising income inequality" refers to which of these two parties' pay goes up and which one stays stagnant. (Assuming both are performing at or above average at their respective job.)
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This is a good explanation. Of course CEOs should make more than the lowest level employee, that isn't the argument being made. And no, people shouldn't make the same as you just because. Some levels of income inequality must exist to encourage entrepreneurship, innovation, etc. It's just that the gap has become so large as one group has seen much larger increases in income than the other.

This isn't about envy, it's about stimulating an economy. When middle class workers can barely afford the products they're making, you have a problem. It is the middle class that drives the economy, Republicans and Democrats alike will admit that. The problem is the middle class isn't making as much money from the high levels of production as the upper class is. Typically, the rich save and/or invest their money more than they spend it on goods and services. Money sitting and accumulating interest doesn't stimulate the economy like middle class consumers can.
 
#877
#877
A few random thoughts about Bernie and his socialism.

Socialism has never done anything than drag the middle class down into poverty while enriching the ruling class.

It requires a very powerful central government. For anyone that doesn't trust politicians, they should know better than to ever believe this will end well.

When it comes to selling the idea, supporters claim they are ready to give more in the name of fairness and equality. When implemented, everyone believes they deserve a piece from those who have more than them.

It's sellers use the guise of fairness equality to disguise their own envy, greed, and laziness.

No matter how many times it has failed, the prevailing thought by those who want it is it wasn't implemented correctly or there was not enough central power to control human instinct.

To make it work requires eliminating from society anyone who doesn't want to play by the rules.

The winners in such a system will only be the ones who have political power and will inevitably live above the masses.

Once your sustenance is dependent upon the government, you are no longer a free person.
 
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#878
#878
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
Many of them really don't though. Not in proportion to what you and I pay. Take at look at Warren Buffet. He is one of the wealthiest in the world, and he will tell you he earns a lot through capital gains, and ends up paying smaller percentages than some of his employees. He and others like him can also afford the best accountants to exploit loopholes, and rest assured, they do.
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What is your tax rate?
 
#879
#879
DC_Vol said:
A few random thoughts about Bernie and his socialism.

Socialism has never done anything than drag the middle class down into poverty while enriching the ruling class.

It requires a very powerful central government. For anyone that doesn't trust politicians, they should know better than to ever believe this will end well.

When it comes to selling the idea, supporters claim they are ready to give more in the name of fairness and equality. When implemented, everyone believes they deserve a piece from those who have more than them.

It's sellers use the guise of fairness equality to disguise their own envy, greed, and laziness.

No matter how many times it has failed, the prevailing thought by those who want it is it wasn't implemented correctly or there was not enough central power to control human instinct.

To make it work requires eliminating from society anyone who doesn't want to play by the rules.

The winners in such a system will only be the ones who have political power and will inevitably live above the masses.

Once your sustenance is dependent upon the government, you are no longer a free person.
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That's your opinion.
 
#882
#882
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
I don't mean for the government to enter confiscatory levels of taxation, nor do I believe the government should control industries (like communists do, and socialists to a lesser extent). I mean for the government to simply play referee, but we've unfortunately reached a point where the wealthiest among us have been able to purchase government power from both sides of the aisle to achieve their goals.
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So we're gonna put our faith in paid off referees.
 
#885
#885
Obsessed said:
I'm sure I've missed it. (Been real busy lately) but can you list anywhere that socialism has worked?
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Denmark, Norway, Germany, Finland, Canada, Ireland, Sweden, etc.

Not only has it worked in those places, they are actually the most truly socialist countries in the world.
 
#886
#886
Mtntrout said:
Denmark, Norway, Germany, Finland, Canada, Ireland, Sweden, etc.

Not only has it worked in those places, they are actually the most truly socialist countries in the world.
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Do you know any folks from those listed countries?
 
#887
#887
BeecherVol said:
So we're gonna put our faith in paid off referees.
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No, but we shouldn't put our faith in those paying the referees either.

When it comes to presidential candidates, Bernie is likely the cleanest, when it comes to being bought. Ron Paul was pretty clean too, in the last couple of elections.

The two don't agree on much though. Bernie blames the corporations and Ron blamed the corrupted government. They're both half-right imo.
 
#888
#888
Mtntrout said:
Arrogance is never flattering.
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You mistake arrogance for pity. I truly feel bad for you. There is opportunity all around you, unlike the majority of the world.

And you are bent on empowering central authority to curtail freedoms to drive out any perceived imperfections...maybe it's driven out of envy, maybe greed, maybe laziness, maybe past choices, maybe desperation. I cannot say with certainty.

But trust me, I made the comment because I truly pity you. I cannot imagine going through this short life with that attitude. I hope that you will open your eyes to the world you live, as imperfect as it may be.
 
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#891
#891
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
No, but we shouldn't put our faith in those paying the referees either.

When it comes to presidential candidates, Bernie is likely the cleanest, when it comes to being bought. Ron Paul was pretty clean too, in the last couple of elections.

The two don't agree on much though. Bernie blames the corporations and Ron blamed the corrupted government. They're both half-right imo.
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I don't. And frankly don't need to. Right now the government is much more of an obstacle to my small business than the rich that hire me to work for them.
 
#893
#893
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
Many of them really don't though. Not in proportion to what you and I pay. Take at look at Warren Buffet. He is one of the wealthiest in the world, and he will tell you he earns a lot through capital gains, and ends up paying smaller percentages than some of his employees. He and others like him can also afford the best accountants to exploit loopholes, and rest assured, they do.
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Warren Buffet is getting the $hit taxed out of him. You are falling victim to lib lies about how he is taxed.
 
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#894
#894
Biopsyman said:
Do you think your taxes are too high?
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I have no problem with paying taxes as long as they're going to fund meaningful projects and not wars, foreign investment, corporate subsidies, etc.

I just see people who make 1,000,000+ in capital gains, and they pay a smaller percentage.

The tax rate is 0% for the 10%–15% brackets; 15% for the 25%–35% brackets; and 20% for the 39.6% bracket.
 
#895
#895
volfanhill said:
No he thinks mine are too low
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I don't know what your yearly earnings are, but if you are paid an artificially low salary and make your earnings via investments in order to pay a lower marginal tax rate than the average middle class worker, then yes. But, like I said, I don't know your tax bracket, so I can't say. I assume it is one of the highest or you wouldn't have made the comment.
 
#897
#897
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
I have no problem with paying taxes as long as they're going to fund meaningful projects and not wars, foreign investment, corporate subsidies, etc.

I just see people who make 1,000,000+ in capital gains, and they pay a smaller percentage.

The tax rate is 0% for the 10%–15% brackets; 15% for the 25%–35% brackets; and 20% for the 39.6% bracket.
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By the time you add all taxes.many at paying 50%..
that is wrong


Income
Payroll
Medicare
Property
Sales tax
Dividend
Capital gains
 
#899
#899
DC_Vol said:
You mistake arrogance for pity. I truly feel bad for you. There is opportunity all around you, unlike the majority of the world.

And you are bent on empowering central authority to curtail freedoms to drive out any perceived imperfections...maybe it's driven out of envy, maybe greed, maybe laziness, maybe past choices, maybe desperation. I cannot say with certainty.

But trust me, I made the comment because I truly pity you. I cannot imagine going through this short life with that attitude. I hope that you will open your eyes to the world you live, as imperfect as it may be.
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No, it is arrogance. You assume I haven't experienced "opportunity." How could anyone who isn't destitute disagree with 21st century American conservatism, right?

"Empowering central authority" is empty rhetoric. If you truly felt that way, you wouldn't even want a republic, let alone an office where one person can unilaterally bomb countries or make executive acts.

What I'm driven by is mercy, human dignity, and building for a better future. My eyes are open and fully functional.
 
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#900
#900
Mtntrout said:
No, it is arrogance. You assume I haven't experienced "opportunity." How could anyone who isn't destitute disagree with 21st century American conservatism, right?

"Empowering central authority" is empty rhetoric. If you truly felt that way, you wouldn't even want a republic, let alone an office where one person can unilaterally bomb countries or make executive acts.

What I'm driven by is mercy, human dignity, and building for a better future. My eyes are open and fully functional.
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You can be driven by all of those and also believe that the government is not the best instrument for every cause.
 
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