Best Healthcare System in the World

[McDad]

It begs the question, is what you outlined a function of the healthcare system or a byproduct of our culture?

It is hard to argue that the healthcare system does a poor job of telling Americans about optimal lifestyle choices. I don't know anyone who doesn't know that eating clean and exercising is key to maintaining good health.

On the other hand, I don't think one can argue that the healthcare system does an optimal job of spreading and browbeating patients into making better decisions. Although there have certainly been many nutritional missteps over the years and a desire for a one size fits all approach, the overeating and lack of exercise are naturally excluded from that potential weakness.

It's a good distinction. One which 8188 made as well. The system of addressing the health care needs of pts isn't at fault for the poor choices of people.
But imo, The health care of a society is related to each person's personal responsibility.

 

[Vol8188]

Nope. You inferred that as you have a propensity to do.

In fact those are merely symptoms of a health delivery system that largely thumbs it's nose at holistic or preventative care. Our system is reactionary, not proactive.

You keep trying to shoehorn razor thin improvements in some cancer/stroke outcomes as evidence that "w3'Re da B3SteSt." Great. Our outcomes are a few percentage points better than our peers in a few areas you deem to be more important than others.

You apparently refuse to address that we pay twice the cost and even then - not everyone gets it.

I'm just saying I'd take an L on a couple of % points and have healthcare security.

More people get care here. We've been through that. American's with a chronic disease are more likely to be treated for that disease than Canadian's with the same disease. We use more drugs per capita (non-illicit).

We wouldn't lead the world in cancer and stroke survival rates if only some got care.

Like policing, healthcare should be primarily reactionary. There's some obvious exceptions (vaccines for example). But it should primarily be a reactionary system and people driving cars (the non-adjusted life expectancy claim you failed with), being fat, or having chronic illness is unrelated to that.

 

[PKT_VOL]

It's a good distinction. One which 8188 made as well. The system of addressing the health care needs of pts isn't at fault for the poor choices of people.
The health care of a society is related to each person's personal responsibility.

Agreed.

I do think that if we move to a single payer system (and I don't see any way we avoid that path), we will have to penalize the hell out of poor personal lifestyle choices (tax the hell out of them). Giving Americans a blank check for the same expectation of care, without taking drastic measures to curb health choices, will lead to an abject healthcare system failure.

 

[Vol8188]

Agreed.

I do think that if we move to a single payer system (and I don't see any way we avoid that path), we will have to penalize the hell out of poor personal lifestyle choices (tax the hell out of them). Giving Americans a blank check for the same expectation of care, without taking drastic measures to curb health choices, will lead to an abject healthcare system failure.

That's the most interesting aspect of a single payer system to me. Obesity, smoking, illicit drug use, car crashes, homicides (the reasons we pay more and have a lower life expectancy) are not things we fix by simply moving from insurance to government.

On top of that we remove any financial incentive for people to fix those things (granted there's other motivating factors), leading to the possibility of worsening those things (granted I think any increase would be small), we decrease incentives to go into healthcare, we likely decrease quality of care too.

So the question is if you move to such a system how do you address those issues without excluding such people from care (morbidly obese, smokers, drug users, etc)? I don't know that I like any of the possible answers.

 

[McDad]

Agreed.

I do think that if we move to a single payer system (and I don't see any way we avoid that path), we will have to penalize the hell out of poor personal lifestyle choices (tax the hell out of them). Giving Americans a blank check for the same expectation of care, without taking drastic measures to curb health choices, will lead to an abject healthcare system failure.

I stated earlier I am not aware of any country under a single payer system where rationing and long waits aren't in play. I am not aware of any country adding taxes or fines for obesity, smoking, etc. Do you know of any?

 

[Vol8188]

It's only okay if you refer to Republicans like Trump or any conservative as obese. Otherwise you are guilty of fat shaming.

He’s our first obese president in decades (maybe 100 years or more). Should be celebrated as a win for diversity

#FatForward