Best President Thread

#51
#51
DefenseisDesire said:
I'll have to look at that. I'll admit I've never looked at primary sources relating to that and I've always just taken it as fact that the Japanese were not going to surrender. I just looked at it as a natural progression from losing ten of thousands of men fighting over Iwo Jima and Okinawa to losing millions fighting over territory the size of California.
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I always thought the same, as it is one of the most pervasive myths in America, until I read criticisms of the action that referred to the primary sources in great detail. At that point, I was both shocked and disgusted. We simply murdered those people and did so for absolutely nothing.
 
#52
#52
DefenseisDesire said:
I agree with that in the modern era. (Post 1900 ish) However, in Tyler's time there were radical problems facing the country (slavery, Native Americans, expansion). He was also essentially ineffective at garnering support for things. It's not that he did nothing out of principle, it's that he was never meant to be President and it showed.
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He was the Ron Paul of his time. Somebody like that will never get elected, because they won't sell out. He vetoed all his own party's big government agenda.
 
#53
#53
DefenseisDesire said:
I will agree with Dresden. I have not researched the others as much. I will have to look into those, although I will admit that at least two or three of those are probably correct.
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Hamburg resulted in the death of 42,600 people dead and 37,000 wounded. Frankfurt resulted in the deaths of 5,000+ Germans.
 
#54
#54
Not sure what the WWII bombing debate has to do with the question.

Are you arguing that a different president would not have done it?
 
#55
#55
Velo Vol said:
Not sure what the WWII bombing debate has to do with the question.

Are you arguing that a different president would not have done it?
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I do not know if another president would have decided to drop atomic bombs on civilians; I know that Truman did and that makes him repulsive (FDR is equally repulsive).
 
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#56
#56
n_huffhines said:
He was the Ron Paul of his time. Somebody like that will never get elected, because they won't sell out. He vetoed all his own party's big government agenda.
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But the reason that he vetoed everything is not the same as Ron Paul. It was not based on principle, it was the fact that he was a Southerner who rode the Log Cabin Campaign to the White House to garner southern votes. That party was split already (Whigs) and he really hadn't agreed with them to begin with. He was emphatic about states rights, but definitely only worsened tension between the North and South.
 
#58
#58
therealUT said:
I always thought the same, as it is one of the most pervasive myths in America, until I read criticisms of the action that referred to the primary sources in great detail. At that point, I was both shocked and disgusted. We simply murdered those people and did so for absolutely nothing.
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That's an interesting take on that, but thanks for the information. Just for discussion, which modern (Post 1940) presidents do you think would have not given the OK for the atom bombs?
 
#59
#59
DefenseisDesire said:
That's an interesting take on that, but thanks for the information. Just for discussion, which modern (Post 1940) presidents do you think would have not given the OK for the atom bombs?
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The only one that I could answer with some degree of certainty would be Carter.
 
#60
#60
Ford, one controversial decision, not much else. I like that in a president.
 
#65
#65
DefenseisDesire said:
Just for discussion, which modern (Post 1940) presidents do you think would have not given the OK for the atom bombs?
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The recent trend is to give a lot of deference to military commanders. I assume they were arguing to use it.

Also, there must have been a lot of pressure to use it simply because we had it. The president says, "we've spend billions of dollars making this bomb, but I'm not going to use it"?

Imagine a costly invasion, then this fact comes out after the war. Might have been a problem.
 
#66
#66
Velo Vol said:
The recent trend is to give a lot of deference to military commanders. I assume they were arguing to use it.

Also, there must have been a lot of pressure to use it simply because we had it. The president says, "we've spend billions of dollars making this bomb, but I'm not going to use it"?

Imagine a costly invasion, then this fact comes out after the war. Might have been a problem.
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None of what you said matters because both an invasion and the bombings proved to be unnecessary. The same terms the Japanese wanted before the bomb was dropped were the terms they got afterwards.
 
#67
#67
Velo Vol said:
The recent trend is to give a lot of deference to military commanders. I assume they were arguing to use it.

Also, there must have been a lot of pressure to use it simply because we had it. The president says, "we've spend billions of dollars making this bomb, but I'm not going to use it"?

Imagine a costly invasion, then this fact comes out after the war. Might have been a problem.
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Even though TRUT and I disagree on certain points, at least he has facts. I do not see where you are coming from on this argument.
 
#72
#72
therealUT said:
None of what you said matters because both an invasion and the bombings proved to be unnecessary. The same terms the Japanese wanted before the bomb was dropped were the terms they got afterwards.
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Should have thought about that sh!t before their little rodeo over Pearl Harbor. Fk Japan.
 
#73
#73
George Washington was the best. The amount of service he gave this country is amazing. He didn't even want a second term but served it to keep Adams and Jefferson from tearing apart all they had brought together. Though considered a Federalist by historians, he didn't believe in party affiliations. His belief was always put the welfare of the country first and he believed heavily in the public helping to decide what was best. The man exemplified patriotism. IMO, no other president has come close to the example he set. There have been good presidents, but he was the only great one.
 
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