Biden Administration has backdoored $42 billion in student loans forgiveness..

[TN Ribs]

States can do what they want with their taxpayers money.

So you are OK with student loan forgiveness (socialism according to Breathe) as long as it's at the state level. Got it.
What principle are you defending here? Free money is cool as long as it's not the Feds doling it out? That makes no sense.

 

[Orangeburst]

Looks like most of the state forgiveness is based on non-profit or community service..aka Physicians in low income areas. To call some paper pushing bureaucrat a community service is a stretch beyond comprehension.

 

[hog88]

So you are OK with student loan forgiveness (socialism according to Breathe) as long as it's at the state level. Got it.
What principle are you defending here? Free money is cool as long as it's not the Feds doling it out? That makes no sense.

Most state forgiveness programs are associated with some form of public service or filling a needed position so that is more of an exchange than forgiveness. But yeah, it is much more palatable at the state level.

 

[RockyTop85]

The Biden Administration updated and changed it.

They didn’t change the statute that directs them to forgive student loans for people in qualifying public service jobs after 120 monthly payments.

 

[TN Ribs]

Most state forgiveness programs are associated with some form of public service or filling a needed position so that is more of an exchange than forgiveness. But yeah, it is much more palatable at the state level.

Got it, so you are a "yes" on socialism and free money at the state level. Just needed to clear that up.

 

[RockyTop85]

Got it, so you are a "yes" on socialism and free money at the state level. Just needed to clear that up.

That’s not support for the prudence of a particular position but for localizing decisions about government structure. Individual voters have more of a say in state and local elections. For example, the most populous state has a little over 10% of the US population, so individual votes make up a larger percentage of the total.

 

[BreatheUT]

They didn’t change the statute that directs them to forgive student loans for people in qualifying public service jobs after 120 monthly payments.

Yes they did.

 

[RockyTop85]

Yes they did.

Lol. No they didn’t.

 

[McDad]

Yes they did.

Lol. No they didn’t.

This seem relevant (from OP link):

For years, Kvaal said, student loan borrowers were making payments under PSLF, thinking they were getting closer to debt cancellation, to no avail.

"When Secretary [Miguel] Cardona got here, he found that only 7,000 people had ever gotten forgiveness in the history of the program. And in many cases, that's because of the fine print in the program," Kvaal said.

In October 2021, for one year, the Biden administration issued what it called a limited waiver temporarily changing the rules of PSLF. On Monday, at the start of Public Service Recognition Week, the Department of Education credited those changes and others with greatly expanding the use of the program.

 

[BreatheUT]

Lol. No they didn’t.

As I mentioned before, they modified it. Here is one such modification. I would have to search the original program language, then get changes and modification dates. There is a reason they were able to write off $42B which I wonder about the legalities.

Paused Payments Count Toward PSLF

Paused payments count toward PSLF and TEPSLF as long as you meet all other qualifications. You will get credit as though you made monthly payments.

To see these qualifying payments show up in your account, you must submit a PSLF form certifying your employment for the payment pause time period. Your count of qualifying payments toward PSLF updates only when you certify your employment.

https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/public-service-loan-forgiveness

 

[RockyTop85]

As I mentioned before, they modified it. Here is one such modification. I would have to search the original program language, then get changes and modification dates. There is a reason they were able to write off $42B which I wonder about the legalities.

Paused Payments Count Toward PSLF

Paused payments count toward PSLF and TEPSLF as long as you meet all other qualifications. You will get credit as though you made monthly payments.

To see these qualifying payments show up in your account, you must submit a PSLF form certifying your employment for the payment pause time period. Your count of qualifying payments toward PSLF updates only when you certify your employment.

https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/public-service-loan-forgiveness

The Biden administration literally cannot amend the statute that directs them to forgive student loans for public servants. Neither did congress since Biden took office. Here are the relevant September 2007 amendments to the statute:

‘‘(m) REPAYMENT PLAN FOR PUBLIC SERVICE EMPLOYEES.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall cancel the balance of interest and principal due, in accordance with paragraph (2), on any eligible Federal Direct Loan not in default for
a borrower who—
‘‘(A) has made 120 monthly payments on the eligible
Federal Direct Loan after October 1, 2007, pursuant to any one or a combination of the following—
‘‘(i) payments under an income-based repayment plan under section 493C;
‘‘(ii) payments under a standard repayment plan under subsection (d)(1)(A), based on a 10-year repay- ment period;
‘‘(iii) monthly payments under a repayment plan under subsection (d)(1) or (g) of not less than the monthly amount calculated under subsection (d)(1)(A), based on a 10-year repayment period; or
‘‘(iv) payments under an income contingent repay- ment plan under subsection (d)(1)(D); and
‘‘(B)(i) is employed in a public service job at the time
of such forgiveness; and
‘‘(ii) has been employed in a public service job during
the period in which the borrower makes each of the 120 payments described in subparagraph (A).
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-121/pdf/STATUTE-121-Pg784.pdf#page=8

The statute has only been amended once since Biden took office and skimming the changes they didn’t do anything to change the PSLF program.

What you’re crying about is the executive branch doing what it was directed by congress to do.

 

[RockyTop85]

This seem relevant (from OP link):

For years, Kvaal said, student loan borrowers were making payments under PSLF, thinking they were getting closer to debt cancellation, to no avail.

"When Secretary [Miguel] Cardona got here, he found that only 7,000 people had ever gotten forgiveness in the history of the program. And in many cases, that's because of the fine print in the program," Kvaal said.

In October 2021, for one year, the Biden administration issued what it called a limited waiver temporarily changing the rules of PSLF. On Monday, at the start of Public Service Recognition Week, the Department of Education credited those changes and others with greatly expanding the use of the program.

That’s a change to how/whether the executive branch completes the directive they received from Congress, not a change to the directive they received from congress.

 

[BreatheUT]

That’s a change to how/whether the executive branch completes the directive they received from Congress, not a change to the directive they received from congress.

You're saying Congress passed that they could do it?

 

[RockyTop85]

You're saying Congress passed that they could do it?

I linked and copy and pasted the United States Code section that says what congress directed them to do.

 

[McDad]

That’s a change to how/whether the executive branch completes the directive they received from Congress, not a change to the directive they received from congress.

Statutes didn't change. Application of statutes did.

Seems like a change to me.

 

[BreatheUT]

I linked and copy and pasted the United States Code section that says what congress directed them to do.

This still does not answer the question on how they were able to include covid non-payments in as payments toward the student loan. If you have that info they you will have more standing in your defense to w/o $42B in less than 18 months to some borrowers.

 

[RockyTop85]

Statutes didn't change. Application of statutes did.

Seems like a change to me.

Are you saying that the people whose loans are being forgiven do not qualify under the statute that I linked and quoted from?

 

[McDad]

Are you saying that the people whose loans are being forgiven do not qualify under the statute that I linked and quoted from?

Not at all. I'm saying the application of the rules and regs is changed.
7,000 received benefit in roughly 17 years. The ave benefit would need to be about 5.7 million to total 40B over that time. From the article, 40B is being pursued for this year. Biden is pushing for 400B in forgiveness.
Something has changed in how the process of approval is applied.

 

[RockyTop85]

This still does not answer the question on how they were able to include covid non-payments in as payments toward the student loan. If you have that info they you will have more standing in your defense to w/o $42B in less than 18 months to some borrowers.

This still does not answer the question on how they were able to include covid non-payments in as payments toward the student loan. If you have that info they you will have more standing in your defense to w/o $42B in less than 18 months to some borrowers.

I understand the legal argument they’re using: while paused your required minimum monthly payment is $0. So people who didn’t pay still made their minimum monthly payment.

I agree that counting months of paused loans as months of payment is dubious as to whether it meets the statutory definition.

That said, if only people with 7 or more years of qualifying public service of the start of Covid and who remained in their public service jobs through the end of those 120 months accounted for $42 billion in student loan debt, that would be a pretty strong policy argument for the rest of his student loan forgiveness. But I know that the people who qualified because of the pause represent a much smaller number than that, and you should too.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

I hear mayor Pete was put in charge of this backdoor push.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I hear mayor Pete was put in charge of this backdoor push.

LG never had gold like this.

 

[RockyTop85]

Not at all. I'm saying the application of the rules and regs is changed.
7,000 received benefit in roughly 17 years. The ave benefit would need to be about 5.7 million to total 40B over that time. From the article, 40B is being pursued for this year. Biden is pushing for 400B in forgiveness.
Something has changed in how the process of approval is applied.

Right, but my point is that the Executive branch carrying out legislative mandate is not offensive in any way. That is how the government supposed to work.

Changing the CFR to (seemingly more effectively) carry out a congressional mandate seems more like a correction than a change and the fact that it doesn’t seem to have been carried out very effectively before seems like the actual problem.

The $0 payments counting towards the 120, notwithstanding.

 

[McDad]

Right, but my point is that the Executive branch carrying out legislative mandate is not offensive in any way. That is how the government supposed to work.

Changing the CFR to (seemingly more effectively) carry out a congressional mandate seems more like a correction than a change and the fact that it doesn’t seem to have been carried out very effectively before seems like the actual problem.

The $0 payments counting towards the 120, notwithstanding.

I understand how you can arrive at that point.

I suspect there were many meetings to "creatively" find others who could benefit without changing the rules/regs.

 

[ETV]

LG never had gold like this.

Never.

and what did I miss with the avi swap?

 

[RockyTop85]

I understand how you can arrive at that point.

I suspect there were many meetings to "creatively" find others who could benefit without changing the rules/regs.

To the extent that those others don’t meet the statutory criteria, I agree it’s a problem. To the extent they do, it’s a congress problem that just should have been spread out over the past 16 years.