Biden Announces US, UK, Australia Alliance

[Vol Main]

Australia to acquire nuclear submarines through new security alliance

 

[MG1968]

Weren’t we already allies with the UK and Australia?

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Weren’t we already allies with the UK and Australia?

It's something different being called now as a "new security alliance". I'm sure it'll be another disaster from the Biden administration just as everything else has turned out to be.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's something different being called now as a "new security alliance". I'm sure it'll be another disaster from the Biden administration just as everything else has turned out to be.

Expect China to be sailing Virginia class attack subs in about 5 years.

 

[Vol Main]

Weren’t we already allies with the UK and Australia?

Sort of. The meanings of those words remain to be announced. About the only thing we know so far is that the US and UK have agreed to provide Australia with nuclear power technology for submarines.

 

[Electric Orange]

France mad.

 

[Vol Main]

France mad.

Hopping mad. The cancelled contract to co-produce submarines for Australia was worth a lot of money to France.

 

[Weezer]

France isn't just mad. They took the unprecedented step of recalling their U.S. and Australian ambassadors.

The whole situation reflects the double standard of our media. If this had occurred under the last administration, this would be played as an international crisis. Yet under the current administration, barely a blip.

 

[TheDeeble]

Australia wants some new toys to beat up their citizens with over Covid?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

This is a big who cares. The only valid point in this thread is that much of the media would be treating the France angle differently under trump.

 

[hog88]

Biden did good if it pissed France off.

 

[Vol Main]

France isn't just mad. They took the unprecedented step of recalling their U.S. and Australian ambassadors.

The whole situation reflects the double standard of our media. If this had occurred under the last administration, this would be played as an international crisis. Yet under the current administration, barely a blip.

This thing took a lot of people by surprise. It boils down to Australia deciding that it needs nuclear powered submarines to meet military developments in its area, then turning to the US and UK for them. I always thought that their decision to buy a nuclear submarine to be redesigned as a conventionally powered submarine would create a world of problems, with endless delays and cost overruns. If they decided to change to nuclear, then why didn't they just change to the nuclear powered submarine that they were redesigning to be conventionally powered? Would France have sold them that? Did they even ask the French for that? It looks like their deal with France got too difficult and they just went another direction, but we do not really know what happened.

 

[Velo Vol]

Keep in mind who shares the waters near Australia.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

From what i read this is more than a sub contract. This is a pact...a formal military naval agreement that if you mess with 1 of us ( china )....you get all 3. Period. With china becoming more and more belligerent it us both appropriate and necessary.

 

[NorthDallas40]

From what i read this is more than a sub contract. This is a pact...a formal military naval agreement that if you mess with 1 of us ( china )....you get all 3. Period. With china becoming more and more belligerent it us both appropriate and necessary.

We already had that with NATO article 5. This might be a specific pact with those three but NATO already covers collective defense. Also if that were the case I think we should include Japan also. Taiwan would be great but that would clearly provoke China.

 

[Orangeburst]

We already had that with NATO article 5. This might be a specific pact with those three but NATO already covers collective defense. Also if that were the case I think we should include Japan also. Taiwan would be great but that would clearly provoke China.

I wanna see ANUS Alliance...Australia, Netherlands, and US

Actually there used to be ANZUS, but think NZ opted out with the elimination of nuclear vessels to port, maybe

 

[NorthDallas40]

From what i read this is more than a sub contract. This is a pact...a formal military naval agreement that if you mess with 1 of us ( china )....you get all 3. Period. With china becoming more and more belligerent it us both appropriate and necessary.

No Marcus I think you might be right. To be sure I went and checked but Australia isn’t a member of the “North Atlantic” Treaty Organization

 

[volfanhill]

It's a smart move. And since when was any worried about pissing off the French?

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Agree with all that ND...just a reminder for the ChiComs that we arent blind to their ambitions....i was gonna post in my last post that i wish Japan were involved, but do we trust them enough to give them our world leading tech for nuclear subs? They fly our F15s right but not with our best electronics and no F35s or F22s IIRC? So do we put our tech for what is arguably THE most important weapon in our arsenal (albeit when armed with nuclear warhead Trident missiles) in the hands of an asian country whose sneak attack on nearly our entire pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor drew us into WW2? I dont know. It would be great to have the Japs patrolling up and down Chinas eastern coast in US built subs...but who can we really trust? Outside of UK, Australia and Israel the waters get muddy real quick IMO

 

[VolStrom]

It's a smart move. And since when was any worried about pissing off the French?

Does this mean that Biden is out of the club?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Agree with all that ND...just a reminder for the ChiComs that we arent blind to their ambitions....i was gonna post in my last post that i wish Japan were involved, but do we trust them enough to give them our world leading tech for nuclear subs? They fly our F15s right but not with our best electronics and no F35s or F22s IIRC? So do we put our tech for what is arguably THE most important weapon in our arsenal (albeit when armed with nuclear warhead Trident missiles) in the hands of an asian country whose sneak attack on nearly our entire pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor drew us into WW2? I dont know. It would be great to have the Japs patrolling up and down Chinas eastern coast in US built subs...but who can we really trust? Outside of UK, Australia and Israel the waters get muddy real quick IMO

We are very tight with Japan these days. Have been since we rebuilt them after WWII. In their defeat they knew things could have been very different however we supported and rebuilt them and they won’t forget that. I’d guess they are the most dependable ally in the region ahead of even Australia.

But they may not be able to enter a mutual defense pact due to how we recrafted their Constitution to have a purely defensive military. I dint know if defense of an ally would pass that bar

 

[VolStrom]

We are very tight with Japan these days. Have been since we rebuilt them after WWII. In their defeat they knew things could have been very different however we supported and rebuilt them and they won’t forget that. I’d guess they are the most dependable ally in the region ahead of even Australia.

But they may not be able to enter a mutual defense pact due to how we recrafted their Constitution to have a purely defensive military. I dint know if defense of an ally would pass that bar

We screwed up when Japan adopted W. Edward Deming and we adopted unions as a way of life. They have quality like Toyota and we got Chevy.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Keep in mind who shares the waters near Australia.

New Zealand?

 

[Vol Main]

Agree with all that ND...just a reminder for the ChiComs that we arent blind to their ambitions....i was gonna post in my last post that i wish Japan were involved, but do we trust them enough to give them our world leading tech for nuclear subs? They fly our F15s right but not with our best electronics and no F35s or F22s IIRC? So do we put our tech for what is arguably THE most important weapon in our arsenal (albeit when armed with nuclear warhead Trident missiles) in the hands of an asian country whose sneak attack on nearly our entire pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor drew us into WW2? I dont know. It would be great to have the Japs patrolling up and down Chinas eastern coast in US built subs...but who can we really trust? Outside of UK, Australia and Israel the waters get muddy real quick IMO

The Japanese have developed highly capable conventional submarines. Many observers expected Australians to buy them, before Australia announced their deal with the French(2016?). We are selling F-35 to Japan, but we did not sell F-22 to Japan, which they wanted badly. The most influencial lobby against the sale of F-22 to Japan was the U.S. Navy. The opposition led Congress to ban export of F-22 across the board, which led in turn to cancelling its production in favor of the exportable F-35.

 

[Orangeburst]

You know what is really screwed up?

AU signed their sub deal in 2016 and yet not one has even been started under construction, much less completed. For a sub design that is operational! I get it, this stuff takes years for long leadtime of all sorts of components and national customization. AU should now expect another 5 year delay and maybe get hardware in 2030 and FOC in 2033.

And not just a French thing. Pure ridiculousness. World wars have been been fought in less time.