Bill Introduced To Abolish Electoral College

#302
#302
LouderVol said:
It's only important if you value the majority over being correct or better.

The government is supposed to provide for the general betterment of the country. I can guarantee you that betterment doesnt look like what you, I, or either party actually wants.

There are any number of examples/stories/anecdotes that point of the frivolous nature of the majority concern. It is by its nature fleeting, contradictory, and self aggrandizing.

Even you, the arbiter of majority, have nothing to provide beyond "even kids do it". They do it because its easiest thing they can grasp. Not because it's good or better than anything else. It's the simplest way to appease the masses while ensuring no real change happens. You even defend it with the lamest of defenses, 'it's what we have always done' bit that offers no context or explanation of why what we are doing is so good or right.

Explain the objective importance of majority rule.
Click to expand...

The idea developed (or at least refined) in Greece was to let the people govern themselves. This means the majority of people make decisions. Now, I understand the inherent flaws in this system for the minority, but minority rule presents the same problems for a society plus some. Minority rule has lead to slavery, centuries long monarchies, authoritarian regimes, genocide, and much more of humanity’s worst features.
 
Last edited:
#304
#304
luthervol said:
What are you saying? That majority should rule?
Click to expand...
Or the FF knew better and made a system that allowed for the changing of times while not dictating it as emptily as majority rules to leave us to the whims of the masses.

Just because it won out as the best option available doesnt inherently mean it was the most popular. I think some of the writings even reflect that. Ben Franklin who was against it even admits to the logic of it in some of his papers. It was the compromise that worked as it was better than the other options.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hog88
#305
#305
OHvol40 said:
I’m not an advocate of absolute majority rule, but nobody seems to want to delve into the topic. I will say, though, that a basic understanding of the value of the majority is understood as children by taking straw polls for contended decisions and everyone agreeing to go with the side with the most votes.

That idea extends all the way up to our legislative processes where majorities carry every decision every made. I’m tired of people playing dumb like they don’t understand the importance of the majority.
Click to expand...

What countries directly elect their President/Prime Minister?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEO
#307
#307
luthervol said:
It almost always beats the hell out of any other alternative.
Click to expand...
"Democracy, it's the worst form of government possible, until you consider everything else we have tried." Or something like that.

And no, it's just the most popular. That does not equate to best.
 
#309
#309
LouderVol said:
I think a modest revision to the EC is all that's needed. Divide them up like Maine and Nebraska. Winner of the popular takes the rounding. So that in a state with 3 ECs and the divide is 55/45. The winner gets 2, loser gets 1.

It doesnt equal out the votes, but it's a lot more even. And much more representative.
Click to expand...

If any change is to be made I would like to see the winner in each congressional district receive that elector and the overall winner in the state receive the 2 Senate electors.
 
#310
#310
OHvol40 said:
That’s all you’ve got. Let me know when you can form scholarly thoughts on the matter.
Click to expand...
It’s all I’ve needed thus far. The founding fathers obviously reached consensus or we wouldn’t have the document. And you’ve offered nothing to indicate their consensus applies less today than it did when they formed it.
 
#312
#312
hog88 said:
You are voting for an elector, the same as the people in Montana. In both states the electors are chosen by popular vote so they are equal.

See I told you that you didn't understand the process.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected I figured he was being disingenuous. He really was ignorant 🤷‍♂️
 
#313
#313
luthervol said:
What are you saying? That majority should rule?
Click to expand...
Nope. That’s like exactly opposite what I was saying with regards to his unanimous point. The ohio kid appreciated the swing and a miss by you though.

Because majority of EC votes already does rule.
 
#315
#315
OHvol40 said:
The idea developed (or at least refined) in Greece was to let the people govern themselves. This means the majority decides of people make decisions. Now, I understand the inherent flaws in this system for the minority, but minority rule presents the same problems for a society plus some. Minority rule has lead to slavery, centuries long monarchies, authoritarian regimes, genocide, and much more of humanity’s worst features.
Click to expand...
Slavery in this country. Maybe, big maybe but not going there. And only if you take the country as a whole during a certain time period. But not slavery in general. Slavery in general is the extension of majority rule. The rule of the majority makes them strong, the voice of the minority makes them a target.

In any system where you are imposing a standard you are doing so against people's will. And often to the determinant of the minority. While in most cases the majority would not actively be as inflicted as the minority is if they lost. You are placing the buderns of the majority upon the backs of the minority. And you do all of that injustice and you dont actually come out with a better system or result. It would be acceptable if we got good results, but we dont.

Two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. I like mutton, thankfully so does my fellow wolf. Sorry sheep, we won the vote. Fair is fair. Democracy in action.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MemphisVol77
#316
#316
LouderVol said:
Or the FF knew better and made a system that allowed for the changing of times while not dictating it as emptily as majority rules to leave us to the whims of the masses.

Just because it won out as the best option available doesnt inherently mean it was the most popular. I think some of the writings even reflect that. Ben Franklin who was against it even admits to the logic of it in some of his papers. It was the compromise that worked as it was better than the other options.
Click to expand...
Actually no. Majority does rule already. A simple majority of EC votes is already all that is required. Luther was trying to be cute and failed again as usual.
 
#320
#320
hog88 said:
You are voting for an elector, the same as the people in Montana. In both states the electors are chosen by popular vote so they are equal.

See I told you that you didn't understand the process.
Click to expand...


I have honestly given up on trying to explain the whole "united states" part and why we are based on the electoral system.

They know why we have it and it's why they are so upset.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MemphisVol77, hog88 and NorthDallas40
#321
#321
NEO said:
I have honestly given up on trying to explain the whole "united states" part and why we are based on the electoral system.

They know why we have it and it's why they are so upset.
Click to expand...
It’s just the usual “we can’t play by the rules and win so we’re gonna change the rules” and boy are they paying for that in spades right now even if Biden does beat Trump 😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEO
#322
#322
NorthDallas40 said:
Nope. That’s like exactly opposite what I was saying with regards to his unanimous point. The ohio kid appreciated the swing and a miss by you though.

Because majority of EC votes already does rule.
Click to expand...
Will you ever be able to undo the knot you have tied yourself into?

So is the minority opinion ever correct?
 
#325
#325
OHvol40 said:
The idea developed (or at least refined) in Greece was to let the people govern themselves. This means the majority decides of people make decisions. Now, I understand the inherent flaws in this system for the minority, but minority rule presents the same problems for a society plus some. Minority rule has lead to slavery, centuries long monarchies, authoritarian regimes, genocide, and much more of humanity’s worst features.
Click to expand...

There is no perfect form of government, all systems of government are flawed but what the founding fathers gave us was the most perfect ever devised.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeburst
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top