Bitcoin

#476
#476
lawgator1 said:
The theory is that it's a static denomination of value, independent of governments, fiat currencies, or the other factors that weigh on currencies. But that would seem to have value only if traditional and stable currencies completely crashed. And if that occurred there'd be not much value to an electronic economy.

The claimed advantage for electronic currency of being easier to transfer is bogus. We have plenty of electronic apps that move the traditional currencies. We don't need an electronic currency to do it.

If the whole purpose is to hedge against currency collapses, again, it seems to me that what you are theorizing would be so massive a shock that going in to a store and offering bitcoin in exchange for standard groceries will be the least of your problems.
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So it's not a "problem", you just don't think the value is there. Who cares? Move on with your life.
 
#477
#477
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The thing that still baffles me is where do the cryptos come from? I kind of get how they can be transactional, much like a barter arrangement, but where did the initial value come from? I get digging a hole and pulling out gold, silver, diamonds, etc. But how does somebody invent a finite currency and establish an initial valuation?
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Screenshot_20210103-185337_Chrome.jpg
 
#480
#480
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The thing that still baffles me is where do the cryptos come from? I kind of get how they can be transactional, much like a barter arrangement, but where did the initial value come from? I get digging a hole and pulling out gold, silver, diamonds, etc. But how does somebody invent a finite currency and establish an initial valuation?
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Why don't you ask these same questions with regards to Federal Reserve Notes?
 
#481
#481
Rasputin_Vol said:
Why don't you ask these same questions with regards to Federal Reserve Notes?
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Because I understand that there is a government that owns trillions of dollars in assets that stands behind their issuance of debt. It’s much like any entity that borrows. It’s just on a scale greater than any other on the planet.
 
#482
#482
Grayscale is what I got into first
Wall Street firms pumped $5.75 billion into digital asset funds in 2020, up 660% from 2019, according to the Dec. 21 crypto inflows report from CoinShares Research.
The spike has pushed Grayscale Investments, the largest crypto asset fund, to $15.3 billion in assets.
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So much bitcoin is now held by long-term institutional investors that blockchain research firm Glassnode estimates just 22% of existing bitcoin is in circulation for trading, which could be positive for the price in 2021 but could also increase volatility.
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In November, billionaire investor Stan Druckenmiller said he owns some bitcoin, telling CNBC he owns a lot more gold than bitcoin, but “if the gold bet works, the bitcoin bet will probably work better, because it’s thinner, more illiquid and has a lot more beta to it.” Bill Miller, the veteran investor and former CIO of Legg Mason, has added his name to the chorus, saying he expects all the big banks to hold cryptocurrency soon and that he has 30% of his own hedge fund portfolio in bitcoin.
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And I had no idea that Fidelity mined Bitcoin

JPMorgan Chase (JPM) has similarly warmed up to cryptocurrency (despite the public comments of CEO Jamie Dimon), first by launching an internal JPM token last year, then this year by allowing customer transfers to and from U.S. crypto exchanges Coinbase and Gemini. Fidelity, which started mining bitcoin in 2016, this past summer launched its first bitcoin investment fund for institutional clients; Fidelity Investments CEO Abby Johnson told Barron’s that Fidelity’s bitcoin ventures have been “incredibly successful.”
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Bitcoin breaks $32,000 as 2020 surge continues into new year
 
#483
#483
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Because I understand that there is a government that owns trillions of dollars in assets that stands behind their issuance of debt. It’s much like any entity that borrows. It’s just on a scale greater than any other on the planet.
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Our government owns trillions in assets it won't sell. We're not going to auction off Yellowstone to make interest payments.
 
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#484
#484
DancingOutlaw said:
Our government owns trillions in assets it won't sell. We're not going to auction off Yellowstone to make interest payments.
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Might dig up more natural resources in Alaska if things get really bad. But since they (we) get to decide how much of a piece of the nation’s collective income they (we) will take there’s really no need to start liquidating. Since we also own the most powerful military on the planet (by far), control the world’s banking system, have an extensive transportation system that’s without peers, produce a vast surplus of agriculture, and sit between 2 huge moats that could be utilized to isolate us from the rest of the world we kind of hold all the cards. Plus most of the national debt is held by the citizens who technically own all of those national parks, fossil fuel reserves, river systems, roads, and other assets so liquidating them doesn’t change the bottom, right hand side of our balance sheet all that much.
 
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#485
#485
lawgator1 said:
The theory is that it's a static denomination of value, independent of governments, fiat currencies, or the other factors that weigh on currencies. But that would seem to have value only if traditional and stable currencies completely crashed. And if that occurred there'd be not much value to an electronic economy.

The claimed advantage for electronic currency of being easier to transfer is bogus. We have plenty of electronic apps that move the traditional currencies. We don't need an electronic currency to do it.

If the whole purpose is to hedge against currency collapses, again, it seems to me that what you are theorizing would be so massive a shock that going in to a store and offering bitcoin in exchange for standard groceries will be the least of your problems.
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Here's the Blocks network description. You can see the difference in fees and speed of sending someone money across it.


Enbtno2WMAA06B1.jpeg
 
#486
#486
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Might dig up more natural resources in Alaska if things get really bad. But since they (we) get to decide how much of a piece of the nation’s collective income they (we) will take there’s really no need to start liquidating. Since we also own the most powerful military on the planet (by far), control the world’s banking system, have an extensive transportation system that’s without peers, produce a vast surplus of agriculture, and sit between 2 huge moats that could be utilized to isolate us from the rest of the world we kind of hold all the cards. Plus most of the national debt is held by the citizens who technically own all of those national parks, fossil fuel reserves, river systems, roads, and other assets so liquidating them doesn’t change the bottom, right hand side of our balance sheet all that much.
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Liquidating shouldn't even be in the conversation. Why should the US give up anything to settle debts with a private bank?
 
#487
#487
Rasputin_Vol said:
Liquidating shouldn't even be in the conversation. Why should the US give up anything to settle debts with a private bank?
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To protect the brand for selling government securities to the outside buyers. No need to bail out on dictating world finance if it comes down to difficulty making their payments.
 
#490
#490
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Well, we are able to borrow money from the world at zero percent interest so it seems logical to not stiff any of the lenders.
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We can't pay them back. What part of that do you not understand? We would either have to start selling off AK and HI or leave the debt to our great grandkids.
 
#491
#491
Rasputin_Vol said:
We can't pay them back. What part of that do you not understand? We would either have to start selling off AK and HI or leave the debt to our great grandkids.
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If it can’t be paid back then nobody would buy the debt. Yet every time it’s issued, sophisticated buyers compete with each other to own it.
 
#494
#494
The "mining" of a non existent thing is a dead give away that the whole concept is a scam. All they've done is create a sophisticated game, a puzzle, and tricked people into the notion that solving it has somehow created actual value. Which of course it hasn't.

The only thing keeping it going now is FOMO. That tends to blow up. And when it does ...
 
#495
#495
lawgator1 said:
The "mining" of a non existent thing is a dead give away that the whole concept is a scam. All they've done is create a sophisticated game, a puzzle, and tricked people into the notion that solving it has somehow created actual value. Which of course it hasn't.

The only thing keeping it going now is FOMO. That tends to blow up. And when it does ...
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Lol why are you so butthurt about this?
 
#496
#496
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Miners account for less than 10% of Nvidia’s revenue. Less than a billion of more than $10 billion.
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You couldn't build a gaming PC right now if you wanted to. $1500 cards are going for $3k on ebay. There's bots on ebay buying pictures of GPU's. Even at these ridiculous prices at the current valuation of BTC they'll pay for themselves within a year. But for someone wanting to build a gaming rig they're totally screwed.
 
#498
#498
lawgator1 said:
Its so intellectually offensive that its bewildering
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It's really not. It's a system of currency backed by and integrated into a much more streamlined and secure system than we currently have to purchase goods and services freely and without scrutiny. It requires effort, time, and money to acquire it, therefore giving it intrinsic value by default. There's a reason governments and banks hate it. There's no vig for the banks and no pound of flesh for the government. It doesn't need to be defended by a standing army or backed by timber reserves.
 
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#500
#500
lawgator1 said:
32k tonight. Sorry, its just insane tulip mania. Either those of us on the sidelines shaking our heads are just way behind the times, or the people scrambling to own something purely digital are very foolish.
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It's a good place to hide money from your thieves
 
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