Blue Bloods?

#26
#26
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Donnie was a mistake, but I don’t know if there was ever a worry that his nefarious shenanigans were afoot during his short tenure at TN. I don’t think that CRB would have grabbed the opportunity so quickly had sanctions been much of a concern.
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That’s fair...we lucked out with Barnes, plain and simple...I don’t think the job was by any means more attractive after Tyndall than after Martin, if anything I think it was less attractive.
 
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#27
#27
bleedingTNorange said:
Willingness to commit to the program...whether that be head coaches salary, assistant pool, or facilities. If you look around the country we pay top dollar for our coach, assistants and stay ahead for the most part on facilities.

Outside of that fan support, that’s a huge part of what coaches look at, and other than Kentucky an argument can be made that Tennessee is tops in the SEC.
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You bring up one thing I didn't think of. Yes, I'm bitching about the quality of hires, but UT certainly did make a statement when we kept Barnes from going to UCLA. I want to see that kind of action in our future coaching searches. To me, that illustrated a big difference in philosophy - not a half-assed move.

You probably know the main weakness I'd point to: lack of passion for basketball in Knoxville. It is certainly better than it was 20 years ago, but I highly doubt the national perception is "Man, those guys at UT in Knoxville sure do love their basketball team!" We have rabid fans that would run through a brick wall for a 5-7 football team. I feel like the bball team only gets that when we're good. Perhaps I am cynical and over generalizing, but I definitely have not seen the appropriate overall fan support imo.

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, and I 100% agree with you that right now is the most attractive the job has been.
 
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#29
#29
bleedingTNorange said:
That’s fair...we lucked out with Barnes, plain and simple...I don’t think the job was by any means more attractive after Tyndall than after Martin, if anything I think it was less attractive.
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Luck not only that Texas let him go exactly when we had an opening, but also luck that his elderly mother lived only a couple of hours away from Knoxville.

ButterBean didn’t necessarily make the position more attractive, but that year did allow for people to forget that Cuonzo was making racism accusations. Donnie also left some players had somebody else had taken the job without emphasizing the culture as CRB did. Tariq and McGhee would provided have been solid post play. Can’t remember if the 3rd guy had opted out before or after considering playing for Barnes.

Edit: 3rd was Willie Carmichael. Punter, Hubbs, Baulkman, and Mostella were a nice perimeter to leave for the next guy.
 
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#30
#30
Thunder Good-Oil said:
He was. But I think that the job became more attractive once removed from Cuonzo and twice removed from Bruce. It was toxic after Cuonzo and Donnie really didn’t make it worse.

It was actually attractive after Buzz. He left several excellent players for the next guy. KO, Bruce, and Cuonzo left huge messes behind them. At least Jerry left behind players that were winning.
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Disagree, KO had the table set for Jerry Green
 
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#31
#31
If we are never a “ blue blood”, still proud to be orange blooded! GBO!
 
#33
#33
Chris4Vols22 said:
You bring up one thing I didn't think of. Yes, I'm bitching about the quality of hires, but UT certainly did make a statement when we kept Barnes from going to UCLA. I want to see that kind of action in our future coaching searches. To me, that illustrated a big difference in philosophy - not a half-assed move.

You probably know the main weakness I'd point to: lack of passion for basketball in Knoxville. It is certainly better than it was 20 years ago, but I highly doubt the national perception is "Man, those guys at UT in Knoxville sure do love their basketball team!" We have rabid fans that would run through a brick wall for a 5-7 football team. I feel like the bball team only gets that when we're good. Perhaps I am cynical and over generalizing, but I definitely have not seen the appropriate overall fan support imo.

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, and I 100% agree with you that right now is the most attractive the job has been.
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It’s not at the level our football fan support is, but as for basketball it’s very high...outside of Duke/Kentucky etc. or schools with only basketball our I would rank our fan support pretty high up there...even in “bad” season our attendance is Top 25 nationally and Top 5 in league...when we are good it’s Top 5 in the nation. I agree I would like to see more patience in down years from fans but that’s just the nature of it, looks at the baseball team, they’re selling standing room only to support those guys right now.
 
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#34
#34
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Multiple NCs as a starting point. I’d put Indiana as a blue blood but not Gonzaga. And multiple NCs alone don’t do it for me. Florida is not a blue blood. They simply had a great roster and competent coach for a few years. The USF Dons aren’t much minus Russell. Cincy actually won back-to-back NCs after Oscar left… but still not a blue blood.

I only recognize 5 or 6. UCLA, UK, UNC, Duke, and Kansas. Possibly Indiana but Purdue has actually been better in the Big 10 than IU. The original Big East could have had a couple had they maintained what they were doing in the 1980s.
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I was going to keep it to 5, with the Hoosiers #5, Good point about Purdue, maqking it good candidate for No. 6. Wonder where Marquette land?>Excuse me Hoosiers No.6. KU in tight battle for top3
 
#35
#35
bleedingTNorange said:
It’s not at the level our football fan support is, but as for basketball it’s very high...outside of Duke/Kentucky etc. or schools with only basketball our I would rank our fan support pretty high up there...even in “bad” season our attendance is Top 25 nationally and Top 5 in league...when we are good it’s Top 5 in the nation. I agree I would like to see more patience in down years from fans but that’s just the nature of it, looks at the baseball team, they’re selling standing room only to support those guys right now.
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Very good point. It's not the worst complaint to have, and I'm probably being harsh. In your opinion, which bball program has "better" fan support, us or UF?

Or is that not a fair comparison because they have natties?
 
#36
#36
FWIW....I think the term "Blue Blood" is another ambiguous word from the media that means whatever fits the narrative at the time...different opinions of what it really means and lack of hardcore absolutes make it a thing to be played with and then put back on the shelf. I'm sure it makes some programs feel good about themselves to be considered a BB but other than that...at least to me...it's not a defining sabermetric by which I can realistically judge a program. That's just me though....
 
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#38
#38
Chris4Vols22 said:
Very good point. It's not the worst complaint to have, and I'm probably being harsh. In your opinion, which bball program has "better" fan support, us or UF?

Or is that not a fair comparison because they have natties?
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Well the built the O’Dome to hold 10,133 ppl and are usually around 9,500...on the flip side TBA holds 21,678 and is usually around 19k...percentage wise they fill up theirs more, but on the flip side we put twice the people in there, so I would say an argument could be made either way but I would lean Tennessee. IMO Arkansas probably has the best argument from a fan base perspective to be above Tennessee.
 
#39
#39
bleedingTNorange said:
I think the Tennessee job has gotten more and more attractive each year, and regardless of what Barnes ultimately does going forward we can thank him for that. We had to settle on CMM, and then Tyndall...we should be able to attract a much better pool of candidates when the time comes. I’m an easily be argued Tennessee is a Top 10-15 job nationally.
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Top 8 nationally at this point. Recruiting, facilities, and awesome arena tell me this.
 
#40
#40
Chris4Vols22 said:
You bring up one thing I didn't think of. Yes, I'm bitching about the quality of hires, but UT certainly did make a statement when we kept Barnes from going to UCLA. I want to see that kind of action in our future coaching searches. To me, that illustrated a big difference in philosophy - not a half-assed move.

You probably know the main weakness I'd point to: lack of passion for basketball in Knoxville. It is certainly better than it was 20 years ago, but I highly doubt the national perception is "Man, those guys at UT in Knoxville sure do love their basketball team!" We have rabid fans that would run through a brick wall for a 5-7 football team. I feel like the bball team only gets that when we're good. Perhaps I am cynical and over generalizing, but I definitely have not seen the appropriate overall fan support imo.

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, and I 100% agree with you that right now is the most attractive the job has been.
Click to expand...
And that is the exact reason I had/have absolutely no problem with us paying him more than he is likely worth in paper. It's a statement to the rest of the coaching world that we aren't playing around. Come here and win, and we'll take care of you.
 
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#41
#41
I look at bluebloods as schools who attract great recruits simply because of their name (history), no matter who the current coach is. Tennessee surely doesn't fall into that class. I would say UCLA, KY, Duke, NC, maybe IU. Maybe I missed some, but most others are up and down, depending on current staff and recruiting.
 
#42
#42
To be a blue blood to me I think you have to have a history and tradition that runs back over 50 years or so. I just think you just have to have a huge role in making the game what it has been over the years. When you look at Duke, Kansas, and teams on that level of history who has helped shape the game to what it is. If your great great great granddaddy got a story and your great great granddaddy and your great granddaddy and your granddaddy and your daddy and you have a story of how they have won they are a blue blood. JMO
 
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#47
#47
Thunder Good-Oil said:
4x NCs, dozens of conference championships. Dozens of NCAAT invites. UCLA isn’t overwhelming without John Wooden.
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IMO, 5 Final Fours isn’t enough for UConn when the blue bloods all have 15+. Indiana, Louisville, Michigan State is probably the next tier for me
 
#48
#48
All of the above (or below) post .... Or the media just all at once starting to call a program a "blue blood"...
 
#49
#49
I don’t have UCLA anywhere near being a blue blood. They had an amazing 15 year run some 50 years ago mostly due to a “magical” recruiting formula.

UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke. Pretty much that’s the list of sustained excellence over multiple generations.
 
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#50
#50
ZZ13 said:
I don’t have UCLA anywhere near being a blue blood. They had an amazing 15 year run some 50 years ago mostly due to a “magical” recruiting formula.

UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke. Pretty much that’s the list of sustained excellence over multiple generations.
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3 Final Fours and a title in the 00's, Final Four again this year. They've been to a Final Four in every decade since the 60s.

That's really our biggest barrier to getting to Blue Blood status. Doesn't seem to matter who is coach, we don't have tournament success. Maybe it's bad luck but it does feel pretty crappy getting knocked out of the tournament every few years by a Big Ten team on a judgement call.
 
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