Bounty Player Suspensions

#26
#26
I have no problem with Goodell molding the NFL's style into what he wants it to be, I just think there are some blatant contraditions and inconsistanies in his actions. He acts like he's looking out for player health with suspensions then lobbies for an 18 game regular season the next sentence.
 
#27
#27
_vol said:
Furthermore, you have to imagine when all of the sports science info was coming to a head about 4-5 years ago the NFL was smart enough to see the PR nightmare looming on the horizon. They started a clean-up process as best they saw it. We have seen this implemented in the further protection of QBs, WRs, etc... More thorough evaluation of players after injuries with guidelines and regulations put in place for injuries particular to the head. The list goes on...

You also have to imagine that a level of "underground" clean-up was instituted as well, for lack of better name. No one would be surprised to find out that all teams had similar fringe programs in place paying players for "bounties" or the like. I imagine the NFL sent out a note instructing that this was not something they would no longer tolerate and to clean it up. If true, it does not take much imagination to assume the Saints and probably some other teams ignored this mandate to some degree. When called on it, they lied over and over. The NFL decided to make an example of the Saints for whatever reason. The reason will probably never be known. The NFL is run like a crime family, anyways, they seemingly take a lot of stuff personal and react accordingly. Perhaps that is the case here.
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I guess. I've said all along that the NFL should just make it clear for guys coming into the league that they will do so at their own peril, but then allow the game to continue to be played as it always has. Even go so far as to provide them with all the scientific studies, and if it bothers them too much, they can go make a living elsewhere. Guys would know that there is some inherent risk with the trade they are choosing, but they will also be WELL compensated for taking said risk. Very much the mentality that drives the crab fishermen on Deadliest Catch. They know full well that they could die out there on the sea, but if they make it home, the financial rewards will make it worth the risk. The NFL should operate under the same mentality IMO.
 
#28
#28
JokermanVol said:
I will never understand the "lying to the man is worse than what you're lying about" angle.

Filming teams' practices but admitting to it is still worse than lying about a bounty.
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It's the exact same way as lying to the cops/a court about something (and being found to have done so intentionally) results in worse punishments/charges; or how a parent confronting a child is going to get angrier/give a worse punishment when the child lies to him or her


It's a person at a higher authority level giving a person a chance to come clean (with the punishment being lessened in return) and the other (accused) party instead chooses deceit and feeling that they can just pull the wool over their eyes and get away with it penalty-free
 
#29
#29
bleedorange0037 said:
I guess. I've said all along that the NFL should just make it clear for guys coming into the league that they will do so at their own peril, but then allow the game to continue to be played as it always has. Even go so far as to provide them with all the scientific studies, and if it bothers them too much, they can go make a living elsewhere. Guys would know that there is some inherent risk with the trade they are choosing, but they will also be WELL compensated for taking said risk. Very much the mentality that drives the crab fishermen on Deadliest Catch. They know full well that they could die out there on the sea, but if they make it home, the financial rewards will make it worth the risk. The NFL should operate under the same mentality IMO.
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To an extent, yes. But keep in mind that a lot of corps invest heavily in athletes on the marketing side of the house. They certainly do not want to sign Megatron to a five-year deal to only have him targeted and injured with obvious intent to maim. If a player is injured as the result of a clean hit, they tend to accept that. While that is a tough pill to swallow for the marketing side, they understand the risk. On the other hand, if a player is injured as the result of a dirty hit, it's a can of worms all around.
 
#30
#30
This is about protecting the league from litigation.

Does everyone realize that over 1300 NFL alumni are engaged in a class action lawsuit over concussions? If you are aware of that, how can you say that Goodell shouldn't take hard, decisive steps to eliminate this behavior? Additionally, the average life expectancy for pro football players is something like 59. Eventually, the kickoff will be eliminated from football, including high school and college. The players have to be protected from themselves. Whether anyone likes it or not, the game is going to continue to evolve. CTE is real and we're only now beginning to understand it.

Roger Goodell is doing what is absolutely necessary to protect the league from future lawsuits. If he allowed it to happen with no attempt to stop it the league would have no grounds to protect itself. I respect Roger Goodell for doing what he has to do. He understands what is at stake. Unfortunately, he gets a lot of heat for doing what is inevitable.

Call me a p&$$/ if you like, but I support Goodell and his efforts.
 
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#32
#32
TrueOrange said:
It's the exact same way as lying to the cops/a court about something (and being found to have done so intentionally) results in worse punishments/charges; or how a parent confronting a child is going to get angrier/give a worse punishment when the child lies to him or her


It's a person at a higher authority level giving a person a chance to come clean (with the punishment being lessened in return) and the other (accused) party instead chooses deceit and feeling that they can just pull the wool over their eyes and get away with it penalty-free
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Lying should result in additional punishment. It shouldn't result in throwing the book at the liar while giving another who did far worse much less punishment.
 
#33
#33
JokermanVol said:
Lying should result in additional punishment. It shouldn't result in throwing the book at the liar while giving another who did far worse much less punishment.
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It was additional punishment; what he got was the sum total of it all, (what happened, what he did, compliance, etc) not just "and we're also suspending you a year for lying"
 
#37
#37
bleedorange0037 said:
Basically depends on your viewpoint of the direction he is taking the game. Ultimately his job is to steer the game in a direction where it will continue to be profitable and popular going forward. If you think that long-term, fans are going to view a product, where most games are 38-35ish contests where defense is essentially outlawed, as entertaining and viable, then sure Goodell is doing a fine job. If you are a fan of old-school, hard-nosed defense, and are going to miss the days where teams could play a 10-7 slugfest because defenders were allowed to come within spitting distance of a QB without drawing a flag and actually defend WR's, then you probably don't think a whole lot of Roger Goodell and the direction he is taking the NFL, and through a trickle down effect, all of football.

Count me amongst the second group.
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The second kind of football is doomed. It's over. All the stuff Goodell and the league are doing now is a desperate attempt to ensure that there's a future for the first.
 
#38
#38
Where are the steve atwaters of yesteryear?
 
#39
#39
HSVol said:
This is about protecting the league from litigation.

Does everyone realize that over 1300 NFL alumni are engaged in a class action lawsuit over concussions? If you are aware of that, how can you say that Goodell shouldn't take hard, decisive steps to eliminate this behavior? Additionally, the average life expectancy for pro football players is something like 59. Eventually, the kickoff will be eliminated from football, including high school and college. The players have to be protected from themselves. Whether anyone likes it or not, the game is going to continue to evolve. CTE is real and we're only now beginning to understand it.

Roger Goodell is doing what is absolutely necessary to protect the league from future lawsuits. If he allowed it to happen with no attempt to stop it the league would have no grounds to protect itself. I respect Roger Goodell for doing what he has to do. He understands what is at stake. Unfortunately, he gets a lot of heat for doing what is inevitable.

Call me a p&$$/ if you like, but I support Goodell and his efforts, even though it's all about the money, he doesn't care about the players, and is wanting and begging for an eighteen game regular season schedule and the only time he started to care about concussions was when the NFL was sued.
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**** Roger Goodell.
 
#43
#43
zjcvols said:
Sue both.

He just needs to sue somebody. That hit ended his career.
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He's a bigger man than that.

Most of the offensive players do not seem to mind the bounties to an extent. They know what's up.

It's just ridiculous to try and compare spygate and bountygate, IMO.
 
#44
#44
Vercingetorix said:
The second kind of football is doomed. It's over. All the stuff Goodell and the league are doing now is a desperate attempt to ensure that there's a future for the first.
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I disagree. If all incoming players were given the option of signing off on documentation saying that they are aware of the dangers associated with playing the game, and waived any rights in the future to bring any sort of lawsuit against the league, or choosing to earn a living elsewhere, almost all of them would sign the waiver in without a second thought. Would there be some players who would choose not to pursue a career in football, sure. However, considering the monetary gains that come with the choice to accept those risks, I'm sure the ones who chose to pass on a football career would be few and far between. It's not like players aren't aware that every time they step onto a football field, there is always the chance that they might not ever walk off it. Players have known and accepted that for as long as football has been played.
 
#47
#47
_vol said:
Anyone that has seen it knows it was over the top and cheap. A 290 pound man does not need to accelerate through a 40-year old QB behind the play.
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Wrong. If a 40 year old QB doesn't want to get hit, he needs to head on to the sidelines Peyton Manning style. Players can't be expected to distinguish between who can and can't be blocked during an INT return.
 
#48
#48
_vol said:
Anyone that has seen it knows it was over the top and cheap. A 290 pound man does not need to accelerate through a 40-year old QB behind the play.
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He does if he wants to get paid
 
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#49
#49
I am certainly to blame here. I had forgotten about the high population of consummate badasses we have roaming around who have completely lost touch with reality.

If you are unable or refuse to see the big picture here then you prolly think guys like dave duerson and junior seau had "gambling" issues.
 
#50
#50
bleedorange0037 said:
I disagree. If all incoming players were given the option of signing off on documentation saying that they are aware of the dangers associated with playing the game, and waived any rights in the future to bring any sort of lawsuit against the league, or choosing to earn a living elsewhere, almost all of them would sign the waiver in without a second thought. Would there be some players who would choose not to pursue a career in football, sure. However, considering the monetary gains that come with the choice to accept those risks, I'm sure the ones who chose to pass on a football career would be few and far between. It's not like players aren't aware that every time they step onto a football field, there is always the chance that they might not ever walk off it. Players have known and accepted that for as long as football has been played.
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This is obviously a decision that adult men are entitled to make. But what about high school kids? And what about college football -- the players might be 18, but how many of them are going to sign a waiver absolving the schools of any future brain damage when they're not even getting paid anything?

This is how American football is going to be radically overhauled -- from the bottom up. How's it going to be business as usual for the NFL if high school and college football either vanish or change dramatically?
 
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