Breaking: Ricky Gibson to the portal

[bpalmer28]

This may be the most money he’ll ever have a chance to make. No issues with him trying to get as much as he can. Hopefully he and Tennessee can get a deal done.

He could have made a LOT more by being a good teammate and accepting the challenge of being CB 1. Then again, maybe deep down he knows he doesn't have what it takes.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

He could have made a LOT more by being a good teammate and accepting the challenge of being CB 1. Then again, maybe deep down he knows he doesn't have what it takes.

Gambling on going to the NFL is a VERY poor bet unless you're absolutely sure. Most guys never even sniff a tryout and Gibson simply isn't THAT shutdown CB.

He might end up in one of the other _FL leagues but he might be done with football after college by choice and this is his cushion for that move.

Betting on the NFL, though, unless you're head and shoulders above others is never the right move.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

He already negotiated that deal. That's the point. 2 months ago he negotiated his current deal. Now he shaking us down for more money before playing a single snap on that new deal.

That's acting in a bad faith and it's a sign of poor character.

Let me ask you this, since it's likely happening.

Is UT without ethics for trying to get guys who are already at other teams or committed elsewhere to flip or hit the portal? If Heupel and Co are working on getting someone into the portal, say another CB at Ohio State, to come to UT and it works, will you be okay with it?

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Employee value and business ethics collide all the time. Corporate and headhunter poaching happens.

The big IF in this move by Gibson is whether he really has a better offer or he's just using the injury as leverage.

He's been given bad advice if he's just using the injury, IMO, because finding a landing spot may be tough for him. He may be playing in the AAC or something next season.

He's been given good advice if he has a landing spot and leverage. He'll get paid either way.

If UT finds he has no offer, the leverage shifts heavily to UT, IMO.

You and I have gone back and forth on a couple of things, but one thing I don’t know that you’ve commented on that I’ve brought up, is being dismissive of what you have around you. Don’t you think there is value in the long term with being a “VFL” ? He’ll stay in the system he knows, if what Swain says is accurate he already doubled his deal after the CFP, he can stay and graduate, he can maintain relationships with teammates, friends, coaches, boosters/business owners who can help him professionally after football. If he has a better deal that gets him $150-200k more, good for him in the short term i guess, but I think these guys are only looking out for their immediate interest and not what he can stay and have . Is it that naive to think that there’s greater value in that, than a 1 time payday to a lot of uncertainty?

 

[90 Vol]

Gambling on going to the NFL is a VERY poor bet unless you're absolutely sure. Most guys never even sniff a tryout and Gibson simply isn't THAT shutdown CB.

He might end up in one of the other _FL leagues but he might be done with football after college by choice and this is his cushion for that move.

Betting on the NFL, though, unless you're head and shoulders above others is never the right move.

So, this is a business. Did Gibson put enough good tape out there to command more than what he originally agreed to at Tennessee? Let's say Gibson enters the portal and he doesn't get anyone to beat what he's already got and decides to back out of the portal. Is Tennessee justified in offering him less than what he originally agreed to? It works both ways.

 

[DaddyChad]

As they say: "It ain't personal. It's just business." Maybe you need to realize what sort of sport you follow now. The game now is about getting paid.

I'm guessing you won't be demeaning the program the next time we recruit over a player?

It’s not good business to break a contract he just signed either. That burns most people in the end. Maybe it works out for him but I doubt it.

 

[Carp]

Let me ask you this, since it's likely happening.

Is UT without ethics for trying to get guys who are already at other teams or committed elsewhere to flip or hit the portal? If Heupel and Co are working on getting someone into the portal, say another CB at Ohio State, to come to UT and it works, will you be okay with it?

Again, that's irrelevant. You keep bringing up what if's but ignore the situation at hand entirely.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You and I have gone back and forth on a couple of things, but one thing I don’t know that you’ve commented on that I’ve brought up, is being dismissive of what you have around you. Don’t you think there is value in the long term with being a “VFL” ? He’ll stay in the system he knows, if what Swain says is accurate he already doubled his deal after the CFP, he can stay and graduate, he can maintain relationships with teammates, friends, coaches, boosters/business owners who can help him professionally after football. If he has a better deal that gets him $150-200k more, good for him in the short term i guess, but I think these guys are only looking out for their immediate interest and not what he can stay and have . Is it that naive to think that there’s greater value in that, than a 1 time payday to a lot of uncertainty?

The game is different now. It's more like the pro model where we saw Knecht get traded, then get "untraded" in about 72hrs.

This is the pro model. Is it good for the old "Rah for State" VFL world? No. It's the death knell for that. Even Peyton, is he a Colt at heart or a Bronco? He's Peyton. His legacy is on HIM not on a specific team.

That's just how it is now. It's very much a pro model with guys being able to portal. Should Quinn Ewers have stuck to his commitment to Ohio State? Should Burrow have stayed too?

It's just not that way anymore.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Again, that's irrelevant. You keep bringing up what if's but ignore the situation at hand entirely.

I'll take that as a yes, you'd be fine with it, since your moral boundaries are clear on Gibson.

I see you. It's not morals.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

So, this is a business. Did Gibson put enough good tape out there to command more than what he originally agreed to at Tennessee? Let's say Gibson enters the portal and he doesn't get anyone to beat what he's already got and decides to back out of the portal. Is Tennessee justified in offering him less than what he originally agreed to? It works both ways.

Absolutely and I said that before. That's why this is a gutsy move (read: likely stupid move) if he's just leveraging the injury and doesn't have a landing spot.

If he's not got a "what if they let me walk" plan, he needs a new agent.

UT SHOULD offer him less money if he actually hits the portal and wants to come back. That's how they can protect themselves from future situations like this. Fair is fair.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

The game is different now. It's more like the pro model where we saw Knecht get traded, then get "untraded" in about 72hrs.

This is the pro model. Is it good for the old "Rah for State" VFL world? No. It's the death knell for that. Even Peyton, is he a Colt at heart or a Bronco? He's Peyton. His legacy is on HIM not on a specific team.

That's just how it is now. It's very much a pro model with guys being able to portal. Should Quinn Ewers have stuck to his commitment to Ohio State? Should Burrow have stayed too?

It's just not that way anymore.

That’s not what I am saying. And I don’t think Ewers and Burrow’s situation is really comparable to this Gibson situation. I’m asking if you think there is value in staying at your school after a period time, where you’re established as a good player and if it’s worth it to burn bridges for a short term payday. It may be a pro model, but there are still a lot of things that are in play for a college “student” that aren’t in play for a player in the NFL.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That’s not what I am saying. And I don’t think Ewers and Burrow’s situation is really comparable to this Gibson situation. I’m asking if you think there is value in staying at your school after a period time, where you’re established as a good player and if it’s worth it to burn bridges for a short term payday. It may be a pro model, but there are still a lot of things that are in play for a college “student” that aren’t in play for a player in the NFL.

I'm just saying that's how the game is now. Gibson is nowhere near Ewers or Burrow, who could almost pick their landing spot from anywhere in the country.

We've all decried the portal and how guys aren't bound and how it ruins the old team aspect where a signing class became family. It was a really good college experience for a lot of players.

The student aspect of "student athlete experience" has been more and more and more devalued. Even back to Deion at FSU or Patterson "we didn't come to play school" and so forth.

Would there be value if players had that old "student" experience back? Absolutely. It's just not what guys are looking for when they come to play athletics.

 

[Carp]

I'll take that as a yes, you'd be fine with it, since your moral boundaries are clear on Gibson.

I see you. It's not morals.

LOL.

Again avoiding the actual situation. You'll bring up a thousand if's and but's without actually addressing the topic of whether or not this specific situation is ethical.

Has UTK/Spyre acted in good faith towards Gibson. That's the only other question you should be asking. Not what about this or what about that.

I see you as well.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

LOL.

Again avoiding the actual situation. You'll bring up a thousand if's and but's without actually addressing the topic of whether or not this specific situation is ethical.

Has UTK acted in good faith towards Gibson. That's the only other question you should be asking. Not what about this or what about that.

I see you as well.

I'm asking if ethics applies equally to both parties: UT and Gibson.

If you only expect ethical behavior from one side, that's not respecting ethics. Do you?

 

[Carp]

I'm asking if ethics applies equally to both parties: UT and Gibson.

If you only expect ethical behavior from one side, that's not respecting ethics. Do you?

The only business relationship that is relevant to THIS conversation is the relationship with Gibson and UTK/Spyre.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The only business relationship that is relevant to THIS conversation is the relationship with Gibson and UTK/Spyre.

But you're so clear that no player should try to renegotiate, that it's unethical for any player, etc, etc.

Why can't you be as clear that it's unethical for UT to try to get guys to jump in the portal. Is it?

Do the strict ethics you want Gibson and other players to hold also apply to UT if we try to get a guy who just signed a new NIL deal elsewhere to hit the portal for more money?

Is that wrong? Is it unethical?

 

[Carp]

But you're so clear that no player should try to renegotiate, that it's unethical for any player, etc, etc.

Why can't you be as clear that it's unethical for UT to try to get guys to jump in the portal. Is it?

Do the strict ethics you want Gibson and other players to hold also apply to UT if we try to get a guy who just signed a new NIL deal elsewhere to hit the portal for more money?

Is that wrong? Is it unethical?

That is in fact NOT what I said.

Gibson did renegotiate. It happened in December and both sides reached a figure they thought was fair based on his 2024 performance. That was the business decision between UT and Gibson. If Gibson didn't think it was fair, he would have jumped in the portal where we easily would have been one of the top portal players available. He might have actually been the best CB available.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That is in fact NOT what I said.

Gibson did renegotiate. It happened in December and both sides reached a figure they thought was fair based on his 2024 performance. That was the business decision between UT and Gibson. If Gibson didn't think it was fair, he would have jumped in the portal where we easily would have been one of the top portal players available. He might have actually been the best CB available.

And, after that negotiation, one thing definitely happened (McCoy's issue) and another thing may have happened (a better offer from another team since as you say he might have been one of the better CBs in the portal previously) which changed his value.

It won't happen a lot but it happened with Gibson.

If he has no offer from elsewhere, let him twist on a stick over the fire of a bad decision. Let him hit the portal and get nowhere. It's his gamble. He took it. He should live with it. If he wants to come back, offer him AAC NIL money. He brought that on himself and let the team know that's how it is. Hardball portal tricks will meet with hardball NIL negotiations. Let's treat each other like men, guys.

If he has an offer, let him take it. UT suffers the loss but retains roster control, though they've shown they'll renegotiate previously so point to Gibson...... they'll probably offer more money.

This is not a big drama situation. It's a business leverage situation and trying to claim ethics or morality or whatever in capitalist behavior echos why the NCAA has been sued for Antitrust Law violations over and over.

Power in business relationships. Capitalism values it and used it so much that Congress reined it in with Antitrust Laws. Removing that power, which UT is neck deep in doing to the NCAA, means the workers/players have too much power. We can agree on that. We really can, but the fact remains...... the workers/players have a lot of the power now.

It's not about emotions or drama here. It's about power in business relationships. Ethics has never been a big deal in business.

 

[Carp]

. Ethics has never been a big deal in business.

Quite clearly you weren't a business major.

As someone involved in contract negotiation, I can assure you that business ethics are indeed a big deal in business.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Quite clearly you weren't a business major.

As someone involved in contract negotiation, I can assure you that business ethics are indeed a big deal in business.

Not in the NCAA they aren't. Ethics has been the last thing in college football since before the video I posted of Nameth saying he was offered more than his Dad made to play football.

It's been a dirty business and it's still a dirty business and you know that's the truth.

Expecting ethics from schools or players was a joke before Alston blew the lid off and money began more openly changing hands. Cars, hookers, covering up crimes, etc, etc for decades.

Saying ethics matters in college athletics is like expecting John Gotti to do the right thing. That's never been how the business worked.

 

[Carp]

Not in the NCAA they aren't. Ethics has been the last thing in college football since before the video I posted of Nameth saying he was offered more than his Dad made to play football.

It's been a dirty business and it's still a dirty business and you know that's the truth.

Expecting ethics from schools or players was a joke before Alston blew the lid off and money began more openly changing hands. Cars, hookers, covering up crimes, etc, etc for decades.

Saying ethics matters in college athletics is like expecting John Gotti to do the right thing. That's never been how the business worked.

Ethics still matter. It's why UF was sued for lying to Rashada.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Ethics still matter. It's why UF was sued for lying to Rashada.

Lying matters legally. Renegotiating doesn't. I know, I know, ethics still matters to you even if it's not illegal.

I get it. You dislike what Gibson is doing but you have the see that it's par for the course for what's gone on in high level college athletics for decades. Shadowy, smarmy situations with very little ethics from players or schools. It's a different kind of situation but it's the same unethical people. I'd expect nothing less than schools to tamper and players to listen.

If he's got an offer, it's a really good leverage move to get paid.

If he's doesn't have an offer and is bluffing and UT calls him on it, he's screwed.

Chances are he gets paid and hopefully has a great season for us. It is what it is.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

He already negotiated that deal. That's the point. 2 months ago he negotiated his current deal. Now he shaking us down for more money before playing a single snap on that new deal.

That's acting in a bad faith and it's a sign of poor character.

Not if it's not against the rules. These agreements seem to be at will. Which means the player can walk away from it at any time with no repercussions. You really can't act in bad faith when you're not doing anything wrong.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So if Gibson blows out his knee and can't play the season, can we use his own method and renegotiate his contract for less money, since he's no longer worth it?

If the language in the contract allows it I'm sure we would do that. NFL teams regularly release players with non-guaranteed money when they are not longer worth it.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

It’s not good business to break a contract he just signed either. That burns most people in the end. Maybe it works out for him but I doubt it.

He didn't break a contract if there legal consequences for doing so. He has the right to walk away at any time. You might think this is unfair but that's what the rules are right now. Rickey Gibson is doing nothing wrong by the letter of the law.