BTO’s Ole Miss Postgame Report

[cncchris33]

Barnes was up to something. Only the 8x non-freshmen played a single minute while all 5x freshmen played zero. That almost has to be on purpose. Maybe he didn’t want to indicate that any one of the 5 is ahead of any other and is attempting to ramp up all of their efforts to earn playing time. Maybe he wanted to emphasize that the competition in the SEC is at a higher level and he’s not content that any of the 5 has worked hard enough to earn PT. Maybe he wanted to show that players that don’t leave will get playing time. It’s possible that somehow the flow of the game dictated the rotation, but it sure seems like messages were being delivered to the young guys. I’d guess that it has something to do with all of them needing to work harder because playing time won’t automatically be handed out.

It did seem calculated. No reasonable coach doesn't work in his subs up 25-30 points, so there was obviously a reason for it. I just think it may be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face if it comes back to haunt you in the event of an injury that forces you to play one of those kids major minutes out of necessity. It isn't like any of those freshmen saw major minutes in pre-conference play, either. They've combined for 194 total minutes of a possible 2800 minutes, this season.

 

[wtmvol]

I wonder if there’s something with Beard and not wanting them to have any positives to walk away with. I could see what Beard did really bothering a stand-up guy like Barnes.

I don't think that's it. Barnes doesn't empty the bench very often once conference play starts. It drives me a little crazy because it feels like a great opportunity to develop young guys, and this season in particular we have a bench full of them that we'll be counting on after this year. I guess Barnes sees it that he would rather give his 8 man rotation as many minutes together as he can and feels like the young guys will develop during practice and in the offseason.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It did seem calculated. No reasonable coach doesn't work in his subs up 25-30 points, so there was obviously a reason for it. I just think it may be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face if it comes back to haunt you in the event of an injury that forces you to play one of those kids major minutes out of necessity. It isn't like any of those freshmen saw major minutes in pre-conference play, either. They've combined for 194 total minutes of a possible 2800 minutes, this season.

It could also be that whatever illness Aidoo had is running through the team and he wanted all of the young players to have the time off.

If he really wanted to get the 5x freshmen’s attention he would have cleared the bench with just the walk-ons. So I think it was most likely a strategy to get all of them focused and not appear to be punishment. Any one of the 5 are capable of contributing something, but there aren’t enough minutes for ALL of them to play meaningful ones. I don’t think that sitting any of them rather than playing them for 2 or 3 minutes of mop up time makes any difference on their development.

It also allows your opponent to save some face. Mississippi was absolutely dismantled and putting the freshmen in the game late to goof around is kind of disrespectful. It’s different when it’s versus an SEC opponent that you’ll see again versus a buy game opponent that you might not play again ever. Also, those kind of one-sided wins lead to sloppiness down the stretch run with the little used players and maybe he didn’t want to allow those bad habits to fester.

 

[ColinS]

It looks like he’s also saying these 6 are the clear leaders and nobody gets a free pass to more playing time. Gainey is clearly in a funk and Awaka must be fouling WAY too often and it offsets his rebounding production.

I was talking about Knecht and not Awaka. Awaka has been playing at a high level he was just behind a guy on fire in this game.

 

[calban]

I wonder if there’s something with Beard and not wanting them to have any positives to walk away with. I could see what Beard did really bothering a stand-up guy like Barnes.

If referring to off court issues, I doubt seriously Barnes is that Shallow. Barnes played his first team most of the way to make an impression and set the tone for the up coming grind. I was impressed and he definitely gave the nation a clear view of what this team can be going forward. Kudos Old Man.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I was talking about Knecht and not Awaka. Awaka has been playing at a high level he was just behind a guy on fire in this game.

The 2nd half was unusual. A couple of those every 4 minutes media time outs were delayed by 2 minutes plus because of no stoppages.

Awaka played the fewest minutes, so that’s what I assumed you meant. At one point both Aidoo and Awaka were on the floor at the same time, but it might have been rather brief.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

If referring to off court issues, I doubt seriously Barnes is that Shallow. Barnes played his first team most of the way to make an impression and set the tone for the up coming grind. I was impressed and he definitely gave the nation a clear view of what this team can be going forward. Kudos Old Man.

Barnes also admits that he wasn’t such a good guy as a younger coach. I’d think that he’s pulling for Beard to keep his **** together.

 

[rdk4121]

That kind of thinking assumes that Gainey won’t continue to learn and develop, which he almost certainly will. He’s a very talented player with some of the best coaching in the country. He’ll become a better player as the season progresses and will continue to contribute to the team’s success.

He's a junior, not some raw freshman. You could easily make the argument for Carr or Dilione, but he kind of is what he is right now. He's gotten worse as the season has progressed, and we're far too deep to just wait for him to get out of it.

Since December, he's shooting 33% from the field, 31% from 3, averaging 5.7 ppg, and 1.4 apg. Also less than a steal a game, and almost as many turnovers as assists. He doesn't provide anything right now, so what's the point of going back to him? Might as well see what someone else can do.

 

[JohnWardForever]

My only additional wish vs what actually happened last night would have been less than 37 minutes for ZZ/35 for Santi/32 Aidoo/31 JJJ. There was no need for the starters to play the last 4 minutes. Have the bench guys just not been getting it done in practice?

The starters hadn't really jelled until the last 2 games; burying the opposition. I think Barnes was enjoying seeing the potential and wanted to send a message too.

 

[cncchris33]

It could also be that whatever illness Aidoo had is running through the team and he wanted all of the young players to have the time off.

If he really wanted to get the 5x freshmen’s attention he would have cleared the bench with just the walk-ons. So I think it was most likely a strategy to get all of them focused and not appear to be punishment. Any one of the 5 are capable of contributing something, but there aren’t enough minutes for ALL of them to play meaningful ones. I don’t think that sitting any of them rather than playing them for 2 or 3 minutes of mop up time makes any difference on their development.

It also allows your opponent to save some face. Mississippi was absolutely dismantled and putting the freshmen in the game late to goof around is kind of disrespectful. It’s different when it’s versus an SEC opponent that you’ll see again versus a buy game opponent that you might not play again ever. Also, those kind of one-sided wins lead to sloppiness down the stretch run with the little used players and maybe he didn’t want to allow those bad habits to fester.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Which is more disrespectful, leaving your starters in and running your offense up 25-30 points, or putting in freshmen to get experience?

I'd venture to guess significantly more people would find the former more disrespectful. Josh Heupel put his 2nd and 3rd string in to run the offense in the Citrus Bowl and got drug thru the coals because they didn't just take a knee for the final 5 minutes.

 

[LibertyVol]

The “Barnes killed his confidence” thing by the haters is funny because that ignores the fact that Mashack is a much improved offensive player this year, Aidoo has grown into a post beast partly because of Barnes publicly saying Aidoo needs to realize how good he is, and Awaka has a much more polished offensive game this year.

Knecht needs to listen to ZZ when he said after Norfolk State “You need to shoot more. I’m passing to you for a reason.” If Knecht feels like he can’t drive, then he needs to pull up or take the 3. I’ve seen him turn down some good looks on the perimeter. He has a nice 3-point stroke. Just shoot!

Might be good to post him up some as well.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Which is more disrespectful, leaving your starters in and running your offense up 25-30 points, or putting in freshmen to get experience?

I'd venture to guess significantly more people would find the former more disrespectful. Josh Heupel put his 2nd and 3rd string in to run the offense in the Citrus Bowl and got drug thru the coals because they didn't just take a knee for the final 5 minutes.

I think there might be something to the idea that it was a calculated message to the freshmen. Once the clock hit zero, the TV showed Barnes and Beard approaching each other for a post-game handshake. Beard looked less than pleased and Barnes had a longer than normal conversation with him in the handshake line. It was a solid 30ish seconds when sometimes Barnes will just shake the hand, say good game, and walk by.

I may be reading too much into that. Barnes may have just been extra talkative. But it certainly looks like what ever Barnes said changed Beard’s demeanor a bit. So, it would make sense if he was explaining to Beard why he kept his starters in.

Just a theory.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Which is more disrespectful, leaving your starters in and running your offense up 25-30 points, or putting in freshmen to get experience?

I'd venture to guess significantly more people would find the former more disrespectful. Josh Heupel put his 2nd and 3rd string in to run the offense in the Citrus Bowl and got drug thru the coals because they didn't just take a knee for the final 5 minutes.

IMO, it’s a better use of minutes at this point of the season to let your key contributors get the work together versus a good opponent rather than throwing a low minute freshman or two into the mix. With ZZ sitting out over the off season and Gainey and Knecht being new and in the core group having the guys that you’re expecting to bring the success in 2023-24 they coukd use the work. Knecht has certainly improved at finding teammates like Santi recently as opposed to a month ago when he was only going one-on-one. Gainey is a more likely candidate to be a key part of the rotation come March than Dilione or the other 2.

Keep them hungry, grounded, and focused on improving enough to be key pieces this year.

I also don’t think that Barnes is as inclined to give up the valuable minutes to freshmen as in years past. This is the best chance at a FF maybe ever. Also, giving lots of minutes to freshmen might not work out so well with the abundance of transfers now being the norm.

How the freshmen react to not playing a lot might be a better indicator of what they are capable of doing for the program a year or two out than playing a handful of additional sloppy minutes.

Now watch Barnes play all 13 in a close game in Starkville and throw even more confusing signals to the casual fans.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I think there might be something to the idea that it was a calculated message to the freshmen. Once the clock hit zero, the TV showed Barnes and Beard approaching each other for a post-game handshake. Beard looked less than pleased and Barnes had a longer than normal conversation with him in the handshake line. It was a solid 30ish seconds when sometimes Barnes will just shake the hand, say good game, and walk by.

I may be reading too much into that. Barnes may have just been extra talkative. But it certainly looks like what ever Barnes said changed Beard’s demeanor a bit. So, it would make sense if he was explaining to Beard why he kept his starters in.

Just a theory.

I’d be surprised if Beard had an issue with Barnes. He was probably just really pissed at his own team’s effort. On one on UT’s last possessions they took 4 or 5 offensive rebounds before finally scoring. Plus I think that the 4 minute TO didn’t come until under 2:00, so that might have disrupted subbing out the regulars like you might with 2-3 minutes remaining. Clearing the bench would have just delayed the end even longer.

Another thing of note, Barnes wasn’t joking around as much with Bob and Bert like he typically does after a good win. He’s maybe quashing the celebratory mindset and keeping the team focused on the next up instead of getting too giddy over the dominating performance.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Which is more disrespectful, leaving your starters in and running your offense up 25-30 points, or putting in freshmen to get experience?

I'd venture to guess significantly more people would find the former more disrespectful. Josh Heupel put his 2nd and 3rd string in to run the offense in the Citrus Bowl and got drug thru the coals because they didn't just take a knee for the final 5 minutes.

But the regulars were milking the clock over the last 5 minutes instead of trying to run up the score. ZZ is very good at understanding the situation and pulling the ball back out to shorten the game.

 

[ColinS]

The 2nd half was unusual. A couple of those every 4 minutes media time outs were delayed by 2 minutes plus because of no stoppages.

Awaka played the fewest minutes, so that’s what I assumed you meant. At one point both Aidoo and Awaka were on the floor at the same time, but it might have been rather brief.

I think they played together a minute or two.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

It did seem calculated. No reasonable coach doesn't work in his subs up 25-30 points, so there was obviously a reason for it. I just think it may be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face if it comes back to haunt you in the event of an injury that forces you to play one of those kids major minutes out of necessity. It isn't like any of those freshmen saw major minutes in pre-conference play, either. They've combined for 194 total minutes of a possible 2800 minutes, this season.

I feel like a big part of it was chemistry building with injuries we haven’t seen many of these guys play long stretches together.

ZZ, Santi & Mashack haven’t played a ton together so I liked seeing those 3 get minutes together.

But I also think Barnes wasn’t thrilled with how the team let the foot off the gas in OOC with some easier matchups so he wanted to see us close this one out.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I think they played together a minute or two.

Either they were very quiet or CRB made a quick change away from it for whatever reason. I noticed them both in and then don’t remember anything significant happening.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I feel like a big part of it was chemistry building with injuries we haven’t seen many of these guys play long stretches together.

ZZ, Santi & Mashack haven’t played a ton together so I liked seeing those 3 get minutes together.

But I also think Barnes wasn’t thrilled with how the team let the foot off the gas in OOC with some easier matchups so he wanted to see us close this one out.

I thought about that last point as well. Get in a good full 40 minute effort at some point instead of possibly nurturing sloppy habits in the garbage time.

 

[VolunteerCeltic]

1. Couldn’t have asked for a better start to SEC play than that, a dominating win against a ranked opponent, TBA continues to be a tough place for teams to come into. We knew Ole Miss likely was a bit overhyped because of their schedule but still an impressive win that got some nice recognition nationally due to them being ranked.

2. Last game Aidoo struggled and Awaka was really good, this game Aidoo shined. I said it then that having both guys allows Barnes to just kind of ride the hot hand/best matchup and yesterday that was obviously Aidoo. I don’t expect him to give us 24 a night, but the aggression from him was nice to see and is something he needs to continue. Still don’t think he’s hitting enough of the 15’+ footers to be shooting as many of them as he is, but the presence around the rim offensively from him helps us go.

3. We continue to see Gainey’s minutes decreasing as his cold shooting continues, hopefully he stays locked in the engaged and is ready to provide a spark off the bench when his number is called. His decreased role though has also coincided with Mashack’s increased minutes and he’s really shining, and definitely making a case for more minutes. He obviously brings great defense but his ability to drive and create from the lane while also finishing now around the basket is a nice addition, add in that he’s now shooting confidently from outside (over 40% on the year), and his role will only continue to grow.

4. Time will only tell if that was a one off, or a start of improved play, but that was the most complete game we’ve seen so far this year from Tennessee. The rotation got trimmed down to 8 and it looks probable that those 8 will be the guys each and every night. Minutes I’m sure will fluctuate, but identifying your 8 and those guys knowing their role and playing more together should benefit them. You want to continue to improve and play your best ball heading into February and March, imo a big part of that is settling on a rotation and really focusing on those guys, it looks like that’s started happening.

5. I think we can officially declare Zeigler back, and potentially as good if not better than ever. His last 8 games he’s averaging: 31.5mpg 12.4ppg 6.4apg 39.6%3pt 1.6topg 2.1spg That is absolutely elite type PG play from him. He continues to look better and better each time out, and obviously at some point that has to plateau, but any worries or doubts about his recovery and return I think can be dismissed, ZZZ is back.

6. We talked about needing to start conference play out strong given the soft start to the SEC slate, 1-0 was needed. We now head on the road for back to back games that we should absolutely be favored in both, however I take this time to remind everyone that winning on the road in conference play is never easy and should never be taken for granted. Again both upcoming games are very winnable, but I wouldn’t be shocked if we dropped 1, however winning both would set us up in great shape early on.


GBO!!!

Vols won by defending, rebounding and sharing the ball. 100% recipe for success, Ole Miss did not know what hit them in the 2nd half!

 

[cardvolfan]

That kind of thinking assumes that Gainey won’t continue to learn and develop, which he almost certainly will. He’s a very talented player with some of the best coaching in the country. He’ll become a better player as the season progresses and will continue to contribute to the team’s success.

I can’t really say I agree with your last sentence, unless it’s in the context that his play has, in general, dropped to his lowest point and he can go nowhere but up. Not sure what’s happened, but he seems to be a shell of the player he was early on.

 

[cardvolfan]

It did seem calculated. No reasonable coach doesn't work in his subs up 25-30 points, so there was obviously a reason for it. I just think it may be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face if it comes back to haunt you in the event of an injury that forces you to play one of those kids major minutes out of necessity. It isn't like any of those freshmen saw major minutes in pre-conference play, either. They've combined for 194 total minutes of a possible 2800 minutes, this season.

I agree that it was calculated, and probably somewhat predetermined. It doesn’t make sense to me, but if it ultimately serves a purpose that I don’t understand, then so be it. Barnes usually has a method to his madness.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I can’t really say I agree with your last sentence, unless it’s in the context that his play has, in general, dropped to his lowest point and he can go nowhere but up. Not sure what’s happened, but he seems to be a shell of the player he was early on.

Gainey was playing better before ZZ’s minutes increased significantly. Maybe his best role is as a backup PG. That’s probably what he was working on over the preseason as ZZ probably wasn’t expected to return so quickly. As a shooting guard/wing he’s behind Santi, Knecht, and JJ and maybe 2 or 3 freshmen have more talent. Plus Mashack is stepping it up at both PG and “shooting” guard.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

Barnes also admits that he wasn’t such a good guy as a younger coach. I’d think that he’s pulling for Beard to keep his **** together.

Maybe, but I’m of the mind that there’s some lines you don’t cross. I know I definitely wouldn’t want Beard affiliated with any team I cheer for.

But RB is a better man than me so

 

[cardvolfan]

Gainey was playing better before ZZ’s minutes increased significantly. Maybe his best role is as a backup PG. That’s probably what he was working on over the preseason as ZZ probably wasn’t expected to return so quickly. As a shooting guard/wing he’s behind Santi, Knecht, and JJ and maybe 2 or 3 freshmen have more talent. Plus Mashack is stepping it up at both PG and “shooting” guard.

Yes, all that is true. I do like his driving ability to the basket, but his shooting and ball protection have regressed.