BTO’s Vanderbilt Postgame Report

[walkenvol]

Yeah, they go on and on. The second half was actually well officiated save for a real short stretch when we had two guys get hacked hard going to the basket with no call. Vescovi was one and can't remember the other. I can't say the same about the first half but it wasn't the reason we were losing.

The other was probably the Aidoo mugging, but there were numerous whistles swallowed in Vandy’s favor when they fell behind IMO. DK was being grabbed repeatedly. The worst was the rebounding foul called against SV that was reversed. SV was in textbook position and did absolutely nothing that could be considered a foul. The hook and hold wasn’t egregious enough to justify a call IMO, but since they blew the whistle they had to call something.

 

[CornbreadVol]

its a fine line with awaka in terms of fouling. Idk what you do if your Rick because most of his fouls seem to be effort related. I do agree that he needs to stop fouling at such a high rate, but it's tough when his best attribute is effort/rebounding.

 

[hatingbamaisawayoflife]

agree, the game thread is just ref ref ref..

anyway.. mashak is a gamechanger on defense that knect is on offense.. he is an unsung hero in some aspects.. many here do give him credit

 

[tn4elvis]

The other was probably the Aidoo mugging, but there were numerous whistles swallowed in Vandy’s favor when they fell behind IMO. DK was being grabbed repeatedly. The worst was the rebounding foul called against SV that was reversed. SV was in textbook position and did absolutely nothing that could be considered a foul. The hook and hold wasn’t egregious enough to justify a call IMO, but since they blew the whistle they had to call something.

The only thing worse than sec football refs are sec basketball rests. It will be on full display for viewing this coming Saturday at Rupp arena.

 

[wtmvol]

Awaka reminds me of former Mizzou player Jeremiah Tilmon. Not necessarily in terms of style of play, but like Awaka, Tilmon couldn't stay on the court his first couple seasons because he would just constantly foul. Part of it is once you get that rap of being a foul machine, the refs anticipate that you're going to foul. Tilmon eventually improved in that area and was able to significantly reduce his foul rate. Awaka needs to do the same or he's going to be sitting much more than he's playing his entire career.

 

[cncchris33]

Would be an interesting analysis to determine the reasons for this as he may be fouling at a higher rate than Uros did. Watched Freak’s recording last night and tried to notice more specifics since I knew the outcome.

Awaka’s first foul yesterday was questionable as he was sliding down the lane with his arms vertical and the Vandy guard jumped into Awaka’s chest and bounced off a bit. Nothing I’d consider poor technique or over aggression? The second was going for a rebound out of his zone and he made contact with the Vandy freshman from New York who I noticed was flopping some when rebounding (did the same to draw Vescovi’s first foul).

You know I like you and I mean no offense in saying this, but I believe you're viewing both of those fouls in an extremely favorable lens.

Vescovi's first foul looks rather innocent, maybe picky even, at first glance. He just gives a bit of a shoulder to gain positional advantage on the rebound attempt. But just after that, he fully extends both arms into the back of Rivera-Torres, shoving him under the basket and completely out of the play. Perhaps he was flopping at times, but he was smart enough to go to the ground on that play, and it was definitely a foul and one you can't commit standing under the basket when three officials have their eyes on the action. You'll never get away with that when your arms go full extension into a guy's back. Ironically, I don't call what Rivera-Torres did on that play "flopping" so much as being smart by selling a foul you know occurred, and we've seen Santi do the exact same thing, himself. Smart players know when to aid an official and make it believable.





Awaka’s first foul was an easy call as well, and definitely a foul. He did a decent job of moving his feet, but he didn't stay vertical and smacked Rivera-Torres on the left elbow. Again, right there in the paint with every official watching the action.


Now I'll admit, those officials overall performance left a lot to be desired and even the announcers called them out on a couple occasions. But I think they easily got those two calls correct.

 

[VOLtaism]

I feel like we had one of those bad games, Vandy played one of their best games, and we still won by 15 points. That's a good feeling. I want to see what happens when we are hitting on all cylinders. The next 2 games would be the perfect time for the lion to stand up and let everyone know who the king is. I will not critique this team. I will just watch in awe, whatever happens.

 

[cncchris33]

I feel like we had one of those bad games, Vandy played one of their best games, and we still won by 15 points. That's a good feeling. I want to see what happens when we are hitting on all cylinders. The next 2 games would be the perfect time for the lion to stand up and let everyone know who the king is. I will not critique this team. I will just watch in awe, whatever happens.

I don't know why you think we played a bad game, necessarily.

We shot 49% overall and 41% from 3 on 22 attempts.
We held Vandy to 36.7% and 31%, respectively.
We outrebounded them 38-31.
We only had 7 TOs and only allowed 4 pts off of them.
And while we only forced 7 TOs, we made them count, scoring 13 pts off them.
We scored 32 points in the paint.
Ww scored 22 second-chance points.
We only committed 10 fouls.

Only negative was really our FT shooting (14-22).

On the road in the SEC, that's a pretty good game. I think you're statement holds some truth for about the last 5 minutes of the first half, but we thoroughly dominated the 2nd half.

 

[ColinS]

The other was probably the Aidoo mugging, but there were numerous whistles swallowed in Vandy’s favor when they fell behind IMO. DK was being grabbed repeatedly. The worst was the rebounding foul called against SV that was reversed. SV was in textbook position and did absolutely nothing that could be considered a foul. The hook and hold wasn’t egregious enough to justify a call IMO, but since they blew the whistle they had to call something.

We only had 10 fouls called on us the entire game. Vandy just had 15. The refs essentially swallowed the whistle which hurt us some because we were the better team. This is when you match your opponents physicality or you lose. We woke up in the second half.

 

[VolunteerCeltic]

I think Estrella is going to be a good player for Tennessee, he is getting more comfortable and isnt shying away from contact. Knecht should be in top spot for POY!

 

[walkenvol]

You know I like you and I mean no offense in saying this, but I believe you're viewing both of those fouls in an extremely favorable lens.

Vescovi's first foul looks rather innocent, maybe picky even, at first glance. He just gives a bit of a shoulder to gain positional advantage on the rebound attempt. But just after that, he fully extends both arms into the back of Rivera-Torres, shoving him under the basket and completely out of the play. Perhaps he was flopping at times, but he was smart enough to go to the ground on that play, and it was definitely a foul and one you can't commit standing under the basket when three officials have their eyes on the action. You'll never get away with that when your arms go full extension into a guy's back. Ironically, I don't call what Rivera-Torres did on that play "flopping" so much as being smart by selling a foul you know occurred, and we've seen Santi do the exact same thing, himself. Smart players know when to aid an official and make it believable.
View attachment 615794
View attachment 615795
View attachment 615796
View attachment 615797

Awaka’s first foul was an easy call as well, and definitely a foul. He did a decent job of moving his feet, but he didn't stay vertical and smacked Rivera-Torres on the left elbow. Again, right there in the paint with every official watching the action.
View attachment 615798

Now I'll admit, those officials overall performance left a lot to be desired and even the announcers called them out on a couple occasions. But I think they easily got those two calls correct.

Maybe my aging eyesight isn’t quick enough to catch these still photos - probably qualifies me to be an SEC official!

Good points - not sure I agree on the Vescovi one not being a flop sold by the Vandy guy as I didn’t see it in the live action the way it’s reflected in the still shot. I guess I just missed the Awaka foul as I thought he had his arms vertical?

Good discussion as always!

 

[VOLtaism]

I don't know why you think we played a bad game, necessarily.

We shot 49% overall and 41% from 3 on 22 attempts.
We held Vandy to 36.7% and 31%, respectively.
We outrebounded them 38-31.
We only had 7 TOs and only allowed 4 pts off of them.
And while we only forced 7 TOs, we made them count, scoring 13 pts off them.
We scored 32 points in the paint.
Ww scored 22 second-chance points.
We only committed 10 fouls.

Only negative was really our FT shooting (14-22).

On the road in the SEC, that's a pretty good game. I think you're statement holds some truth for about the last 5 minutes of the first half, but we thoroughly dominated the 2nd half.

I shouldn't have said bad night but not our best night and Vandy had their best night. They kept it at 10 and under until the very end. We did have a lot of turnovers early and they were up by 9 points with the ball just before the half. This is a team that UT should beat without DK but he carried them in this game. If he had not played for some reason it would have been a nail biter. In any case, any road win is gold. That's why I say they are due to have game or games where they just overwhelm the opposition, whoever they are.

 

[cncchris33]

Maybe my aging eyesight isn’t quick enough to catch these still photos - probably qualifies me to be an SEC official!

Good points - not sure I agree on the Vescovi one not being a flop sold by the Vandy guy as I didn’t see it in the live action the way it’s reflected in the still shot. I guess I just missed the Awaka foul as I thought he had his arms vertical?

Good discussion as always!

I guess my distinction of a flop is attempting to sell a foul that doesn't occur. So, in my opinion, he didn't flop on that play because I think it is clear that a foul certainly did occur (my opinion, of course). He just made the call easier to make by going to the ground, which was a smart move since he was no longer in any position to make a play on the ball having been shoved up underneath the basket.

Another aspect to consider is that he was aware enough to realize it occurred in front of his bench (on the baseline), and that their reaction would further influence a call in Vandy's favor. Had that happened on the other end of the floor, maybe the officials swallow the whistle.

Perhaps I'm giving him too much credit for his self-awareness, but I've seen Santi and other high-IQ players be able to influence officiating by using things like this to their advantage. I'm not familiar enough with Rivera-Santos to know if he's of that ilk or whether he just lucked out.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

I was very impressed by our defensive discipline in the second half. We held gave them very few clean looks and stole cleanly on dribbles and passes. We did that without fouling, which is tough given the tight calls. We were in the bonus quickly and they never got there. Given the sloppy calls and Vandy’s chippiness, we played very maturely. That is a good sign of a developed team.

 

[TennEddie]

Gainey’s FT shooting will be a huge asset in late
close games.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Gainey’s FT shooting will be a huge asset in late
close games.

True, but I don’t know who sits late in games that puts Gainey on the floor. Knecht, Mashack, SV, ZZ, and JJJ are all good ball handlers that can be trusted to make their free throws. Somebody probably has to have fouled out for Gainey to be in games at the end. Maybe if Aidoo has fouled out Gainey takes a spot from Awaka or Mashack - probably not Mashack unless Barnes is subbing offense/defense. Mashack makes big plays in close games.

 

[BACKDOC]

I don't know why you think we played a bad game, necessarily.

We shot 49% overall and 41% from 3 on 22 attempts.
We held Vandy to 36.7% and 31%, respectively.
We outrebounded them 38-31.
We only had 7 TOs and only allowed 4 pts off of them.
And while we only forced 7 TOs, we made them count, scoring 13 pts off them.
We scored 32 points in the paint.
Ww scored 22 second-chance points.
We only committed 10 fouls.

Only negative was really our FT shooting (14-22).

On the road in the SEC, that's a pretty good game. I think you're statement holds some truth for about the last 5 minutes of the first half, but we thoroughly dominated the 2nd half.

It was basically a tale of two halves; only 30 points in the first half, and too many TO"s; second half much better.

 

[BruisedOrange]

True, but I don’t know who sits late in games that puts Gainey on the floor. Knecht, Mashack, SV, ZZ, and JJJ are all good ball handlers that can be trusted to make their free throws. Somebody probably has to have fouled out for Gainey to be in games at the end. Maybe if Aidoo has fouled out Gainey takes a spot from Awaka or Mashack - probably not Mashack unless Barnes is subbing offense/defense. Mashack makes big plays in close games.

Good point, TG-O. But how about in a "set play for the winning shot, coming out of time-out" situation? When the opposing coach has schemed to keep Knecht from getting or releasing the ball, Gainey would be a terrific option to have on the court.

For Santi and ZZ, the moment would not be too big, but their stroke has not been as reliable so far this season. Same goes for (when healed up) JJJ, who in seasons past has taken that final shot for the win (though not with good results, IIRC).

Gainey would have the better stroke right now, but I wonder when was the last time he had a shoot-to-win moment, and what he learned from it?

EDIT: late thought - If we stacked a bunch of guys (including Gainey) in multiple screens to get DK free, I'd bet Gainey could slip out practically uncovered, with all eyes on covering Knecht.

 

[Dr H Lecter]

I noticed the second half Tennessee was switching on all off ball screens and not trying to run through/around them. In the first half, Vandy set several moving screens away from the ball leaving open shots. The adjustment shut down the outside shooting.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Good point, TG-O. But how about in a "set play for the winning shot, coming out of time-out" situation? When the opposing coach has schemed to keep Knecht from getting or releasing the ball, Gainey would be a terrific option to have on the court.

For Santi and ZZ, the moment would not be too big, but their stroke has not been as reliable so far this season. Same goes for (when healed up) JJJ, who in seasons past has taken that final shot for the win (though not with good results, IIRC).

Gainey would have the better stroke right now, but I wonder when was the last time he had a shoot-to-win moment, and what he learned from it?

EDIT: late thought - If we stacked a bunch of guys (including Gainey) in multiple screens to get DK free, I'd bet Gainey could slip out practically uncovered, with all eyes on covering Knecht.

That makes sense in a must score scenario. Depending on the matchups I’d probably go with the starting 5 for a possible put back. If a 3-pointer is needed it would be an interesting decision. If the opponent has length to defend the perimeter then either Aidoo or JJJ are viable. I’d maybe even sit down ZZ depending on how much pressure they’re able to put on the ball.

JJJ missed a game winner a year or two ago from the right wing or elbow area. It was a good look - just wouldn’t drop for him.

 

[BruisedOrange]

That makes sense in a must score scenario. Depending on the matchups I’d probably go with the starting 5 for a possible put back. If a 3-pointer is needed it would be an interesting decision. If the opponent has length to defend the perimeter then either Aidoo or JJJ are viable. I’d maybe even sit down ZZ depending on how much pressure they’re able to put on the ball.

JJJ missed a game winner a year or two ago from the right wing or elbow area. It was a good look - just wouldn’t drop for him.

With no real facts to back up my opinion, I've just assumed ZZ is our best inbounding passer, with JJJ next best due to his height. Who else has Barnes used inbounding the ball that I'm forgetting?

 

[Franklin_Vol09]

I didn’t read through the entire thread. However, imo this is what JJJ should be doing.

He needs to be a dribble drive type player. With rotation and double team focus on DK, the lanes should be more open. If he can score…great. If not, then we have 3 capable 3 point shooters on then perimeter.

The high pick and roll with Aidoo should be utilized more.

Estrella is really growing up. A lot of what he did won’t show up on the card but he is doing all the right things. He has a bright future. Awaka is loosing minutes right now but hopefully doesnt get discouraged.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

I was very impressed by our defensive discipline in the second half. We held gave them very few clean looks and stole on their dribbles and passes. We did that without fouling, which is very impressive. Were in the bonus quickly and they never got there. Given the sloppy calls and Vandy’s chippiness, we played very maturely. That impressed me.

Care to add any details related to the situation in which Rick Barnes got T'd up?

 

[Chris4Vols22]

Care to add any details related to the situation in which Rick Barnes got T'd up?

I could be completely wrong, but I'm not sure if the T was called on Barnes. It would be the first time I've ever seen a coach get called for a T by one ref that's out of the camera's view when he's talking to another ref that's about a foot away from his face. The ESPN play-by-play says the foul was called on Tennessee, and that's usually a bench foul.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I could be completely wrong, but I'm not sure if the T was called on Barnes. It would be the first time I've ever seen a coach get called for a T by one ref that's out of the camera's view when he's talking to another ref that's about a foot away from his face. The ESPN play-by-play says the foul was called on Tennessee, and that's usually a bench foul.

I had the same thought. I wonder if someone could get clarification on that.