Butch Jones press conference tomorrow at noon

#53
#53
BearCat204 said:
Yes, but Tebow threw the ball 33 times the entire year. Wasn't really a 2nd QB and was used in wildcat and short yard to gain situations. I guess its how you define a 2 QB system.
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Precisely. He threw about the number of passes you would expect the back up to throw in mop up.
 
#54
#54
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Cause he's slow.

For the read option to be effective, the guy doing the read has to threaten the defense with an explosive run otherwise its worthless. See Justin Worley in this offense.
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Not a fair comparison IMO. Worley for his last season on the read option kept the ball less than the amount of fingers one has on one hand is my best recall.
 
#55
#55
BearCat204 said:
Yes, but Tebow threw the ball 33 times the entire year. Wasn't really a 2nd QB and was used in wildcat and short yard to gain situations. I guess its how you define a 2 QB system.
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Well, yeah. If, by definition, a 2 QB system is defined by an even 50-50 split of snaps, few, if any have successfully accomplished that by choice (by that, I mean not because of injury). Tebow only attempted 33 passes, but for 358 yds and 5 TDs (only 1 pick). He also rushed 89 times for 469 yds and 8 more TDs. He wasnt playing out of necessity, nor was he doing this strictly in garbage time. He played nearly 22% of the snaps, and not because he had to. I call that a well-executed 2 QB system, but I won't argue with those who don't. I just think if you're looking for examples of a near even split, you won't find many examples.
 
#56
#56
sjt18 said:
If JG were a 245 lb run first change of pace hammer... then it might be worth designing a short yardage package for him. He isn't.
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sjt18 said:
Precisely. He threw about the number of passes you would expect the back up to throw in mop up.
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Except Tebow didn't do it solely in mop-up duty, and he played almost 22% of the time. He played a lot of meaningful snaps.

And I'm not saying any of this as reasoning for us to use a 2 QB system. Tebow and Leak were more dufferent than JG and Dormady are. I'm just providing an example of one that has worked in the past. Who gets to define the parameters of what a 2 QB system is? I mean, there's not a very concrete definition, so opinions will vary.
 
#58
#58
cncchris33 said:
Well, yeah. If, by definition, a 2 QB system is defined by an even 50-50 split of snaps, few, if any have successfully accomplished that by choice (by that, I mean not because of injury). Tebow only attempted 33 passes, but for 358 yds and 5 TDs (only 1 pick). He also rushed 89 times for 469 yds and 8 more TDs. He wasnt playing out of necessity, nor was he doing this strictly in garbage time. He played nearly 22% of the snaps, and not because he had to. I call that a well-executed 2 QB system, but I won't argue with those who don't. I just think if you're looking for examples of a near even split, you won't find many examples.
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Not even saying a 50 50 split. Again, depends on what defines a 2 QB system, I would define it as at least a 30/70 split
 
#59
#59
cncchris33 said:
Except Tebow didn't do it solely in mop-up duty, and he played almost 22% of the time. He played a lot of meaningful snaps.

And I'm not saying any of this as reasoning for us to use a 2 QB system. Tebow and Leak were more dufferent than JG and Dormady are. I'm just providing an example of one that has worked in the past. Who gets to define the parameters of what a 2 QB system is? I mean, there's not a very concrete definition, so opinions will vary.
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The problem is that if you include Tebow and Leak then you precisely doubled the number of examples of two QB systems that worked well. That is compared back to the numerous times it has led to worse play by both or split the team.

Coaches avoid playing two QB's for very good reason.

There is little or nothing to be gained by playing both with the same game plan. If you expand or create a 2nd gameplan then you are not giving your starter the best chance to succeed. And that's before you start talking about how many reps you give the back up in practice to get ready to execute.
 
#60
#60
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Can't remember a time where a dual quarterback system was in the best interest of a team.

So unless it is just for game 1 to see which plays better with live ammo flying, then it certainly smells like it is being done to placate JG.
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Spurrier was a great coach and he used the 2 qb system several times for the Gators. This is the only example I can remember.
 
#61
#61
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You gotta love the extremes this website goes through. Before the spring game it was all about how JG was the definite starter and QD was gonna transfer. Then Dormady has a nice spring game and he's now the second coming and we're just giving JG snaps to placate him. LOL.

JG is still extremely talented. Dormady can't run the read option which is critical in today's college game. Whether you like it or not, we're gonna play both QBs. And we'll play them ALL SEASON. Dormady will definitely get more snaps. But Guarantano will play as well because he brings a skill set to the field that Dormady doesn't have.

We have 2 great QBs. It would be dumb on Butch's part to not play both if they can both help us WIN. Florida won the national championship in 2006 with a 2-QB system. And so can we.
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1. Why can QD not run the read option?

2. The read option is not critical in today's college game. Some programs choose to run it, some don't....you can win with it or without it....a quick glance at the best teams in the country last year shows this

3. Florida's 2006 team was not a true 2 qb system. Chris Leak was the starting qb, the qb that they relied on to win games, the qb that took about 80% of the snaps. Tebow threw all of 33 passes that season and was essentially a single wing qb/glorified fullback when he was in.
 
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#62
#62
sjt18 said:
The problem is that if you include Tebow and Leak then you precisely doubled the number of examples of two QB systems that worked well. That is compared back to the numerous times it has led to worse play by both or split the team.

Coaches avoid playing two QB's for very good reason.

There is little or nothing to be gained by playing both with the same game plan. If you expand or create a 2nd gameplan then you are not giving your starter the best chance to succeed. And that's before you start talking about how many reps you give the back up in practice to get ready to execute.
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Again, I'm not making a case for the system to be used, nor am I banging the table suggesting it is the secret hidden element in college football. I hope we find one and stick with him.

I just provided an example that I feel worked, and concede that if a coach can make it work when he has two QBs who bring different elements to the game, that it can work. Obviously, it takes a special set of circumstances or it would have been executed successfully more often.

Bottom line, I agree with the framework of your theory regarding 2-QB systems, and I'm not arguing for its use for Tennessee.
 
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#63
#63
cncchris33 said:
Again, I'm not making a case for the system to be used, nor am I banging the table suggesting it is the secret hidden element in college football. I hope we find one and stick with him.

I just provided an example that I feel worked, and concede that if a coach can make it work when he has two QBs who bring different elements to the game, that it can work. Obviously, it takes a special set of circumstances or it would have been executed successfully more often.

Bottom line, I agree with the framework of your theory regarding 2-QB systems, and I'm not arguing for its use for Tennessee.
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No problem. You got caught in a little crossfire.

I feel the need to be very direct... even insulting to D4H. It isn't primarily his opinions... but more his "de facto" tone in presenting them.


Well, it is sort of his opinions too. The guy seems to think of himself as a football guru and he's actually pretty ignorant of the game. He's never responded but I suspect he's never played a down of competitive football.
 
#64
#64
KBVol said:
1. Why can QD not run the read option?
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Due to his melanin deficiency of course.

2. The read option is not critical in today's college game. Some programs choose to run it, some don't....you can win with it or without it....a quick glance at the best teams in the country last year shows this
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Don't get confused with facts... D4H hath spoken.

3. Florida's 2006 team was not a true 2 qb system. Chris Leak was the starting qb, the qb that they relied on to win games, the qb that took about 80% of the snaps. Tebow threw all of 33 passes that season and was essentially a single wing qb/glorified fullback when he was in.
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I'm sure you just don't understand what a true 2 QB system is....
 
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#65
#65
sjt18 said:
No problem. You got caught in a little crossfire.

I feel the need to be very direct... even insulting to D4H. It isn't primarily his opinions... but more his "de facto" tone in presenting them.


Well, it is sort of his opinions too. The guy seems to think of himself as a football guru and he's actually pretty ignorant of the game. He's never responded but I suspect he's never played a down of competitive football.
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He's admitted he was too scared to get hit, so he didn't play football.
 
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#66
#66
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Can't remember a time where a dual quarterback system was in the best interest of a team.

So unless it is just for game 1 to see which plays better with live ammo flying, then it certainly smells like it is being done to placate JG.
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2006, national championship for Florida using Chris Leak and Tim Tebow.
 
#67
#67
GoBigOrangeVols said:
That (Florida 2006) was def not a true 2 QB system.
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No? Tebow played in every game, took 122 snaps, accounted for 13 TD's (8 rushing and 5 passing), 89 rush attempts averaging 5.3 yards per carry, countless clutch first down runs on 3rd/4th and short, passed 33 times for 358 yards and 5 TD's.

Florida doesn't win the national title that year without Leak AND Tebow.
 
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#68
#68
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Can't remember a time where a dual quarterback system was in the best interest of a team.

So unless it is just for game 1 to see which plays better with live ammo flying, then it certainly smells like it is being done to placate JG.
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Remember Leak/Tebow. I believe they won a National Champ. with it.
 
#69
#69
sjt18 said:
No problem. You got caught in a little crossfire.

I feel the need to be very direct... even insulting to D4H. It isn't primarily his opinions... but more his "de facto" tone in presenting them.


Well, it is sort of his opinions too. The guy seems to think of himself as a football guru and he's actually pretty ignorant of the game. He's never responded but I suspect he's never played a down of competitive football.
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You'll get no argument from me about that bozo. No doubt, we definitely see eye to eye on that issue.
 
#71
#71
Freak said:
Butch has his scheduled weekly press conference tomorrow at noon. I'm guessing if there's any truth to the suspension rumors, we'll find out then.

We all know Dormady is going to be the starting quarterback, so I'm not sure what the big secret is in announcing it. Will Butch name a starter tomorrow?

Speaking of quarterbacks, does this whole dual quarterback thing feel a bit forced to anyone else? It seems like they decided before fall camp even started that both guys were going to play. Is this set up in the best interest of the team this year, in your opinion? Or is this an attempt at roster management for the future?
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I hope the suspension rumors turn out to be players returning to full health and ready for Georgia Tech
 
#74
#74
Lotsa getting wrapped around the axle on how to define a 2-QB system.

One thing's for sure: if you define it as each guy getting 50% of the snaps, you'll never see one, almost by definition. It's always going to be at least somewhat lopsided. Chance, if nothing else, ensures that.

So forget 50/50 or even 60/40. It could be 80/20 or even 90/10 and still be a 2-QB system.

Then what defines it? I would say this: if the defense can't know for sure which QB is going to come out to lead the next series? Then you're running a 2-QB system.

So yes, Leak-Tebow was 2-QB. Ainge-Shaeffer was. Wuerffel-Dean was.

Folks love to rail against the 2-QB approach, because it seems to break one of the basic principles of war: unity of command. Principles that, in almost every other way, seem to fit football so well.

But no one can actually point to proof that using 2 QBs doesn't work in college football. Actual proof, a series of failures over time, over and over again, which show that it never works.

In fact, showing one example of a time when it worked well (like Leak-Tebow) proves the opposite, that it can.

And the truth is, the principle of unity of command is not broken with a 2-QB system. Not in college football in this day and age. Because all teams retain unity of command: the head coach is in command. The QB is just his field lieutenant; the head coach is calling the shots (with help from his OC and DC).

So yeah, there's nothing inherently wrong with using 2 QBs, and there's nothing inherently right about it, either. Some coaches make it work, others maybe not.

Looking like we'll see how Butch & Larry Scott do with it maybe these first few games.

Go Vols!
 
#75
#75
Freak said:
Butch has his scheduled weekly press conference tomorrow at noon. I'm guessing if there's any truth to the suspension rumors, we'll find out then.

We all know Dormady is going to be the starting quarterback, so I'm not sure what the big secret is in announcing it. Will Butch name a starter tomorrow?

Speaking of quarterbacks, does this whole dual quarterback thing feel a bit forced to anyone else? It seems like they decided before fall camp even started that both guys were going to play. Is this set up in the best interest of the team this year, in your opinion? Or is this an attempt at roster management for the future?
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Totally forced. Why can't Butch make up his mind? QD was 10-10 in the spring game and has been the first QB to work with 1's all fall. Drives me crazy.
 
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