Canada's top doc says: Canada's health-care system is sick

#1
SavageOrangeJug

SavageOrangeJug

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#1
How many times have we been told how wonderful the Canadian health care system is, and how happy Canadians are with it?

Once again, the liberals were wrong.

SASKATOON–The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says Canada's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care, and she adds that physicians from across the country – who will gather in Saskatoon today for their annual meeting – recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doig told The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."
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Top doctor says system 'imploding'
 
#3
#3
Well then, thank goodness we're not in Canada or looking to recreate their system here.
 
#4
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UT IE 95 said:
Well then, thank goodness we're not in Canada or looking to recreate their system here.
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...but we keep hearing how wonderful socialized medicine is, and how happy the Canadians are with their system.

Moral of the story: Socialized medicine is a failure, and your boy, Obama, is an idiot for wanting it here. Deal with it.
 
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#5
I am not an advocate of the health plan being rolled out by the President, et. al. However, I think that by and large, Canadians are very happy, and proud, of their system. I go to school with several Canadians who are shocked at the US health insurance vs. health care infrastructure (I don't really get the shock/indignation at the fact that we offer insurance vs. care, but whatever). My point is that while they are proud of it, they will readily admit that it has its problems. They even call it broken in some ways. They will also say they would take that broken system over ours.

I say this not to advocate Obama's health plan, but more to suggest that just because something is broken in one's opinion, it doesn't mean he/she wouldn't rather have it than something else.
 
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TennTradition said:
I am not an advocate of the health plan being rolled out by the President, et. al. However, I think that by and large, Canadians are very happy, and proud, of their system. I go to school with several Canadians who are shocked at the US health insurance vs. health care infrastructure (I don't really get the shock/indignation at the fact that we offer insurance vs. care, but whatever). My point is that while they are proud of it, they will readily admit that it has its problems. They even call it broken in some ways. They will also say they would take that broken system over ours.

I say this not to advocate Obama's health plan, but more to suggest that just because something is broken in one's opinion, it doesn't mean he/she wouldn't rather have it than something else.
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I know several Canadians. Had a serious relationship with a medical professional from Canada. Dated another girl from Canada. I went to Tunica last April with a Canadian citizen. None of them seemed to express that air of superiority.

Ask your fellow students what experience they have with our system. Tell them watching CNN and MSNBC doesn't count.

I'll take the words of Canada's top doctor, "the system is imploding", over that of some college students. Especially when a trip Disneyworld is about the extent of their American experience.
 
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#7
I just worked with a guy from Montreal. We were installing some software that we bought from a Canadian company. He hated their system. What amazed me was he told me that Americans dont know how good we have it. He told me that if you had a minor problem, cold, flu, or something they could treat at a clinic, then it was fine. What he said sucked was that if you broke your arm, you might have to wait a day to see a doctor to get it set in a cast. He said what was even worse was if you had to have major surgery and you might have to wait a year before your name is called. He said that a lot of people are coming to the States to get treated for cancer, heart conditions, etc. and that was what was driving our costs up. He also said that most of the better Canadian doctors are moving to the U.S. so they dont have the limitations on treating patients like they do in Canada.
 
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SavageOrangeJug said:
I know several Canadians. Had a serious relationship with a medical professional from Canada. Dated another girl from Canada. I went to Tunica last April with a Canadian citizen. None of them seemed to express that air of superiority.

Ask your fellow students what experience they have with our system. Tell them watching CNN and MSNBC doesn't count.

I'll take the words of Canada's top doctor, "the system is imploding", over that of some college students. Especially when a trip Disneyworld is about the extent of their American experience.
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I think that their air of superiority comes from the notion that Americans have to seek insurance for something like health services, instead of having health care. I still don't draw the distinction, but I've heard many conversations in the last year or so where this is often the sticking point.

It's not that they pretend that Canada can offer superior doctors (en masse), I think that we're all in agreement that the best of the American services/doctors surpass those found in Canada. They just drag out the "insurance is something you buy for inanimate objects - a ring, a house, a car - the focus for man should be on health care, not health insurance."

I don't know how they all feel, but the guy I am closest to seems to dislike Obama's proposals as much as the next guy it seems. That probably has to do with the fact that it is insurance reform and not care reform.

My only reason for commenting was not to defend nationalized insurance/care, but just to raise the one point. If your only point was to say that the Canadian system is not the perfect model, then my point is moot, and you will find few who will disagree with you. Rather, if your point was to say that even this doctor doesn't think that the Canadian approach is better than the American approach, then my point stands - his comments do not necessarily reflect that position.

I'm not really sure what to make of the Disneyland comment.
 
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#9
#9
TT, my point was this, Canada has been held up as a shining example during this healthcare fight (it ceased being a debate about two days in). People in the media, this forum, and blogs across the Internet have stated, "Canada's system is great" or "Canadians are happy with their system". Clearly, they are wrong.

My point with the Disneyworld comment? I have visited Canada, but I have no experience with their healthcare system. I must rely on what I'm told by Canadian friends (I have several), and what people like the good doctor have to say. Same with your fellow students.

Canadian healthcare is NOT free. Their taxes are unreal. Even sales tax is ridiculous. Find a Canadian retailer on the web. Go through the steps to buy a product. Once they add the national tax, then the provincial tax, and if you are in Canada at the store, add the local sales tax too. You'll get an idea what I'm talking about.
 
#11
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SavageOrangeJug said:
...but we keep hearing how wonderful socialized medicine is, and how happy the Canadians are with their system.

Moral of the story: Socialized medicine is a failure, and your boy, Obama, is an idiot for wanting it here. Deal with it.
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I have a "friend" that recently went to Canada and received lasik surgery. He prefered it over the service and cost in the US. It's just one story, but if you dig enough you can find people and stories that paint very differing pictures of both the US and Canadian health care systems.

And as I've said all along, health care reform will impact the people that already mooch on the system. There will always be the best facilities, treatments, and doctors available for those that can afford it. I say bring it on - my headaches in going to the doctor will go down tremendously.
 
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UT IE 95 said:
I have a "friend" that recently went to Canada and received lasik surgery. He prefered it over the service and cost in the US. It's just one story, but if you dig enough you can find people and stories that paint very differing pictures of both the US and Canadian health care systems.
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Exactly.

Our system is on the verge of imploding the same as the Candanian system is. They can't provide enough care, and we can't control costs. They have everybody covered, we have better care. There is ups and downs to both systems.
 
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I think what gets forgotten in these comparisons is the population differences (size and diversity) of the U.S. vs. Canada.

Canada's total population is less than the number of uninsured in the U.S. If the U.S. went to a single payer system, it would be the largest in the world. I doubt that a purely government funded HC system is scalable to the size country we are.
 
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rjd970 said:
Exactly.

Our system is on the verge of imploding the same as the Candanian system is. They can't provide enough care, and we can't control costs. They have everybody covered, we have better care. There is ups and downs to both systems.
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I would say this is a fair assessment. Although I would word things a little differently. They have everybody covered but the coverage is of fair quality but turnaround time leads a lot to be desired.

We have excellent quality but lack equal coverage across the board. Access to care is very quick but there are impediments to to quality much the same as there is in Canada, though for completely different reasons.

There are certainly drawbacks to both systems. The question is which nations health problems are more easily fixed? I would be curious to know your answers to this question.
 
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#15
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volinbham said:
I think what gets forgotten in these comparisons is the population differences (size and diversity) of the U.S. vs. Canada.

Canada's total population is less than the number of uninsured in the U.S. If the U.S. went to a single payer system, it would be the largest in the world. I doubt that a purely government funded HC system is scalable to the size country we are.
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The size of government required to administer a program of this size would be mind boggling. How large would government have to grow to properly run a program of that magnitude, IYO?
 
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MontereyVol said:
I hope you guys are ready for Tri-Care :p
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:banghead2:

6 months for an MRI and another 3 months to figure out I had a tear on my rotator cuff.

I've often thought that Tri-Care was very similar to the Canadian system, and that's not a good thing.
 
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SavageOrangeJug said:
TT, my point was this, Canada has been held up as a shining example during this healthcare fight (it ceased being a debate about two days in). People in the media, this forum, and blogs across the Internet have stated, "Canada's system is great" or "Canadians are happy with their system". Clearly, they are wrong.

My point with the Disneyworld comment? I have visited Canada, but I have no experience with their healthcare system. I must rely on what I'm told by Canadian friends (I have several), and what people like the good doctor have to say. Same with your fellow students.

Canadian healthcare is NOT free. Their taxes are unreal. Even sales tax is ridiculous. Find a Canadian retailer on the web. Go through the steps to buy a product. Once they add the national tax, then the provincial tax, and if you are in Canada at the store, add the local sales tax too. You'll get an idea what I'm talking about.
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One difference is that these people have been participating in the US healthcare program for over 4 years now. They aren't Disneyland tourists.

However, even if they were, the original point would still stand. Using these comments by the top doc to suggest that there is something wrong with Canadian healthcare would be reasonable, using them to assert that he would prefer the American system to the Canadian system could be a stretch. He very well might feel that way, I'm just saying I couldn't conclude that from what he said.

It would actually make sense that a doctor (if he/she is looking out for his/her own interests) would prefer the US system because there is a lot more money to be made here. The best the US has to offer is a whole lot better than the best Canada has to offer...particularly when it comes to the paycheck for doctors.
 
#19
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DC Vol said:
:banghead2:

6 months for an MRI and another 3 months to figure out I had a tear on my rotator cuff.

I've often thought that Tri-Care was very similar to the Canadian system, and that's not a good thing.
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I tore my ACL at about the same time as a friend in Toronto and was completely released from PT before he had even been in for his MRI. In that 6mos I had seen my regular doc, seen the orthopedist, had an MRI and done almost 6mos of PT. Forgive me if I like my healthcare
 
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utvolpj said:
I tore my ACL at about the same time as a friend in Toronto and was completely released from PT before he had even been in for his MRI. In that 6mos I had seen my regular doc, seen the orthopedist, had an MRI and done almost 6mos of PT. Forgive me if I like my healthcare
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Yeah, but did they check you for a VD?
 
#21
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UT IE 95 said:
I have a "friend" that recently went to Canada and received lasik surgery. He prefered it over the service and cost in the US. It's just one story, but if you dig enough you can find people and stories that paint very differing pictures of both the US and Canadian health care systems.

And as I've said all along, health care reform will impact the people that already mooch on the system. There will always be the best facilities, treatments, and doctors available for those that can afford it. I say bring it on - my headaches in going to the doctor will go down tremendously.
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elective surgery and your "friend" likely paid with cash. That's a far cry from having macular degeneration and being told nothing can be done for you until you lose sight in one eye.
 
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MG1968 said:
elective surgery and your "friend" likely paid with cash. That's a far cry from having macular degeneration and being told nothing can be done for you until you lose sight in one eye.
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His vision was 20/400 and was considered blind. It was fully covered at zero cost for the procedure. He can spot a dime on the floor from across the room now.
 
#24
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KB5252 said:
There are certainly drawbacks to both systems. The question is which nations health problems are more easily fixed? I would be curious to know your answers to this question.
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That's a loaded question. At a glance, one would think our system is more easily fixed, but the problem is the entire debate is mired in politics which drives either/or solutions and very little room for a reasonable middle ground. This makes it extremely difficult.

HC is a pick your poison debate. Get really good care for those who can afford it (free market) or mediocre to crappy care for everybody (socialized). Right now our issue is we have a free market with government intrusion short of a total coverage for everybody. Hence the out of control costs, unsustainability, and monopolization of insurance providers.
 
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#25
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UT IE 95 said:
His vision was 20/400 and was considered blind. It was fully covered at zero cost for the procedure. He can spot a dime on the floor from across the room now.
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fully covered by who? is your "friend" a US citizen? if so, how does he feel knowing he screwed the Canadian taxpayers?
 
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