Capitol Punishment

[85SugarVol]

“Beyond a reasonable doubt” is too low a threshold to clear for the State to legally kill you.

Jmo.

 

[865er]

Don’t care if they confessed.
Don’t care if you have witnesses.
Don’t care about the airtight forensics.

We get it wrong. We cannot afford to get it wrong.

I know the line will get fuzzy.. but let's say they caught the Nashville shooter alive. We know she or he ( I can't keep up... ) killed all those innocent people. You'd rather pay to keep them alive?

 

[85SugarVol]

I know the line will get fuzzy.. but let's say they caught the Nashville shooter alive. We know she or he ( I can't keep up... ) killed all those innocent people. You'd rather pay to keep them alive?

From a purely philosophical standpoint, I don’t have a problem with the death penalty. If a society so chooses.

I have a problem with our application of the death penalty. We get it wrong.

False witness is as old as man.
False confession is as old as man.
And law enforcement is fallible.

Are you proposing some version of a “super-burden” of proof for capital punishment? Beyond all doubt?

I concede that some instances remove all doubt, but what about the others?

 

[865er]

From a purely philosophical standpoint, I don’t have a problem with the death penalty. If a society so chooses.

I have a problem with our application of the death penalty. We get it wrong.

False witness is as old as man.
False confession is as old as man.
And law enforcement is fallible.

Are you proposing some version of a “super-burden” of proof for capital punishment? Beyond all doubt?

I concede that some instances remove all doubt, but what about the others?

Figuring out the threshold would be touchy.. but if there’s a video of a person shooting children then hang ‘em. If there’s the slightest doubt in the world then it’s a no go for me.

 

[LouderVol]

Figuring out the threshold would be touchy.. but if there’s a video of a person shooting children then hang ‘em. If there’s the slightest doubt in the world then it’s a no go for me.

they are already a thing, but with AI deep fakes will become a real problem.

 

[865er]

they are already a thing, but with AI deep fakes will become a real problem.

Valid point unfortunately.

 

[hog88]

Figuring out the threshold would be touchy.. but if there’s a video of a person shooting children then hang ‘em. If there’s the slightest doubt in the world then it’s a no go for me.

Video can be altered. The best bet is to do away with the death penalty.

 

[85SugarVol]

Figuring out the threshold would be touchy.. but if there’s a video of a person shooting children then hang ‘em. If there’s the slightest doubt in the world then it’s a no go for me.

I understand your position.

That “man” filmed himself raping that 8 year old girl. Then he filmed himself, smiling for the camera and narrating, while he gutted her like a fish.

There is clear surveillance video of him abducting her.
Her fibers and DNA are all over his van.
His DNA profile is present, in multiple forms, with the victim.
He recorded and narrated the crimes.
And they were unable to recover the body until he told them where.

Is there any doubt there ^? Doesn’t look like it. But how often will you get all of that?

And at the end of the day it’s still people, just people, that will be tasked with pulling all that evidence together.

And people make mistakes.

 

[865er]

I understand your position.

That “man” filmed himself raping that 8 year old girl. Then he filmed himself, smiling for the camera and narrating, while he gutted her like a fish.

There is clear surveillance video of him abducting her.
Her fibers and DNA are all over his van.
His DNA profile is present, in multiple forms, with the victim.
He recorded and narrated the crimes.
And they were unable to recover the body until he told them where.

Is there any doubt there ^? Doesn’t look like it. But how often will you get all of that?

And at the end of the day it’s still people, just people, that will be tasked with pulling all that evidence together.

And people make mistakes.

I get all that. It's just hard for me be okay knowing we are keeping people like Dylann Roof alive and well. Like many political arguments it's impossible to find a definite answer to the problem.

 

[85SugarVol]

I get all that. It's just hard for me be okay knowing we are keeping people like Dylann Roof alive and well. Like many political arguments it's impossible to find a definite answer to the problem.

I see no other solution than to lock them in a cage, and wait for them to die.

 

[865er]

I see no other solution than to lock them in a cage, and wait for them to die.

Can we agree to leave someone like him in gen pop and let nature take it's course?

Also, locking someone in solitary for the rest of their life is worse than death for me.

 

[85SugarVol]

Can we agree to leave someone like him in gen pop and let nature take it's course?

Also, locking someone in solitary for the rest of their life is worse than death for me.

Cage would be synonymous with Cell, not necessarily solitary.

But I’m not against sending the worst of the worst to Florence.

 

[Pennheel]

I'm for it for the sole reason if you can find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (ex: Parkland shooter) ,but that IMO was screwed up by the verdict. DyIan Roof is another good example. I won't lose sleep over people like that getting the death penalty. However, I see both sides of the argument especially if there's poor evidence if they're seeking the death penalty. It's not a black and white issue, but in principle I agree with it.