CBS Sports: 50 Best Big Men

#29
#29
Atzar said:
Basically a clone of Anthony Davis, but without the unibrow. Ridiculous on defense, raw on offense except for dunks. Wouldn't hurt either of them to gain 25 pounds.
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Anthony Davis was anything but raw on offense...he could shoot, drive, post up, make the floater, do just about anything.
 
#33
#33
WCS didn't practice bball as much as our other recruits. Amazing reciever with unbelievable speed. Cal says he's our 2nd fastest player on the team behind Goodwin. Amazing our 7 footer is faster then so many of our smaller guys.
 
#34
#34
DominicLoBianco said:
Anthony Davis was anything but raw on offense...he could shoot, drive, post up, make the floater, do just about anything.
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Someone is going to have to show me why this is true, then. He was hell in transition because he was the fastest big man on the court. He could make dunks off of cuts, but where are all of these other skills that people say he has? He was below average in post-up situations at Kentucky, and the numbers support that statement. He was below average with the jumpshot, and the numbers support that statement.

He does have a good handle for a big, and he has good form on his jumpshot. I've just yet to see those translate to any above average skill on offense except for finishing at the rim. For comparison, I agree that Noel will probably never touch Davis as far as ball-handling is concerned, but everything else? Noel has good touch around the basket too. Noel can dunk too. Noel can miss jumpshots despite good mechanics too.

So tell me, what am I missing? Serious question. I don't see what makes Davis so good on offense.
 
#35
#35
Atzar said:
Someone is going to have to show me why this is true, then. He was hell in transition because he was the fastest big man on the court. He could make dunks off of cuts, but where are all of these other skills that people say he has? He was below average in post-up situations at Kentucky, and the numbers support that statement. He was below average with the jumpshot, and the numbers support that statement.

He does have a good handle for a big, and he has good form on his jumpshot. I've just yet to see those translate to any above average skill on offense except for finishing at the rim. For comparison, I agree that Noel will probably never touch Davis as far as ball-handling is concerned, but everything else? Noel has good touch around the basket too. Noel can dunk too. Noel can miss jumpshots despite good mechanics too.

So tell me, what am I missing? Serious question. I don't see what makes Davis so good on offense.
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Go to this page College Basketball Player Stat Leaders (2011-2012) - StatSheet.com go to the middle column in the top row (Offensive rating) and see who is at #4. Stats don't really lie.
 
#36
#36
zansdad said:
Go to this page College Basketball Player Stat Leaders (2011-2012) - StatSheet.com go to the middle column in the top row (Offensive rating) and see who is at #4. Stats don't really lie.
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You're right, but offensive efficiency doesn't define his skillset, which is what I thought we were talking about here. He scores most of his points in transition, on the offensive boards, and on cuts to the rim. These are indicators of athleticism and finishing ability.

I'm using this article on Draft Express.

He posts up 13.5% of the time, which is well below average for a big man. He converts at a rate of .85 points per play, which is slightly below average. He used his jumpshot more often - 22% of his possessions - but converted only 34% of them, which again is below average.

Look, Blake Griffin has proven that you don't need to have a high skill level to be a good offensive player if you can just jump over everybody. Davis will get his points. I'm just not seeing this wide range of offensive skills that many people claim he has. He's a freak athlete and has excellent touch around the basket, but is otherwise a work in progress on offense. You could write the same sentence about Nerlens Noel and it would still be true.
 
#37
#37
^this should simply things..

Davis could hit the mid range jumper with consistency, you had to guard him out there...he also showed the ability to hit the 3 ball.

You will likely see nobody covering Noel outside of 5 feet.
 
#38
#38
Atzar said:
You're right, but offensive efficiency doesn't define his skillset, which is what I thought we were talking about here. He scores most of his points in transition, on the offensive boards, and on cuts to the rim. These are indicators of athleticism and finishing ability.

I'm using this article on Draft Express.

He posts up 13.5% of the time, which is well below average for a big man. He converts at a rate of .85 points per play, which is slightly below average. He used his jumpshot more often - 22% of his possessions - but converted only 34% of them, which again is below average.

Look, Blake Griffin has proven that you don't need to have a high skill level to be a good offensive player if you can just jump over everybody. Davis will get his points. I'm just not seeing this wide range of offensive skills that many people claim he has. He's a freak athlete and has excellent touch around the basket, but is otherwise a work in progress on offense. You could write the same sentence about Nerlens Noel and it would still be true.
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I can't speak to jump shooting%. But his points per play is probably a product of being on a team with 5 other NBA draft picks. And his post up percentage is a product of the dribble-drive offense. You cant expect a guy to being posting up all the time in an offense that doesn't want it's big guy posting up.
 
#39
#39
zansdad said:
I can't speak to jump shooting%. But his points per play is probably a product of being on a team with 5 other NBA draft picks. And his post up percentage is a product of the dribble-drive offense. You cant expect a guy to being posting up all the time in an offense that doesn't want it's big guy posting up.
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Exactly. If you watch one game of each their offensive games aren't even comparable. As I said Davis had to be guarded out to 18 feet, and showed he could hit a 3. Noel won't be guarded outside of 5-8 feet, his game is dunks, and put backs on offense.

I won't even get into the hooks and turn arounds that Davis started to show later in the year. Yea a lot of Davis' points came off oops, but that's because of the dribble drive and those passes were there...people shouldn't mistake that for thinking he had no offensive game.
 
#40
#40
He's been a guard most of his life. He NEVER practiced in the post until he grew his junior season. Although he has great touch he's growth spurt affected his jump shooting. It was obvious at the beginning of the season. He was horrific offensively and admitted that he let big men push him off the block because he didn't want the ball in the post...then Feb and March came around and he was considerably better offensively. Both post moves and jump shooting. Whether Noel will have that learning curve is yet to be seen.
 
#41
#41
UK101 said:
He's been a guard most of his life. He NEVER practiced in the post until he grew his junior season. Although he has great touch he's growth spurt affected his jump shooting. It was obvious at the beginning of the season. He was horrific offensively and admitted that he let big men push him off the block because he didn't want the ball in the post...then Feb and March came around and he was considerably better offensively. Both post moves and jump shooting. Whether Noel will have that learning curve is yet to be seen.
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It's crazy how high his ceiling is once he puts it all together.
 
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