Ceasefire.....

#51
#51
And it helps to have some leadership skills especially those taught by the military if you plan on leading the military. It's hard for many to understand the hardships of those who serve and the actual concepts of sending people off to war if you've never served. Perhaps if one had served in combat they would not be so prone to sending troops trained to be a fighting force to become a nanny and babysitter to centuries old ethnic squabbles.
 
#52
#52
CSpindizzy said:
And it helps to have some leadership skills especially those taught by the military if you plan on leading the military. It's hard for many to understand the hardships of those who serve and the actual concepts of sending people off to war if you've never served. Perhaps if one had served in combat they would not be so prone to sending troops trained to be a fighting force to become a nanny and babysitter to centuries old ethnic squabbles.
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Really? Most all the military officers turned Presidents, which faced military conflict during their presidency, that I can think of, pretty much ignored the advice of their military advisors...
 
#53
#53
Does that mean their knowledge did not help them? Keep in mind that a President also applies non-military concerns the military does not always address. That doesn't mean they completely disregarded their military background.

And were those 'advisors' civilian or military you refer to? And you have Bush in that category do you not?
 
#54
#54
CSpindizzy said:
Does that mean their knowledge did not help them? Keep in mind that a President also applies non-military concerns the military does not always address. That doesn't mean they completely disregarded their military background.

And were those 'advisors' civilian or military you refer to? And you have Bush in that category do you not?
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They were military.
 
#55
#55
therealUT said:
Really? Most all the military officers turned Presidents, which faced military conflict during their presidency, that I can think of, pretty much ignored the advice of their military advisors...
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I think they all figure out really quick that what is militarily correct isn't always politically expedient.
 
#56
#56
A good example was the promising aid to the Shiites in southern Iraq at the end of the '91 Gulf War and then backing out, leaving them to be slaughtered. Had Bush 41 stayed true to that commitment, we could have seen a changing of the guard while leaving a relatively intact Iraq not needing to be rebuilt.

There are untold numbers of examples of this. Another one is just letting the Communists take Vietnam and letting the line of defense be their neighbors and the Philippines.
 
#57
#57
CSpindizzy said:
A good example was the promising aid to the Shiites in southern Iraq at the end of the '91 Gulf War and then backing out, leaving them to be slaughtered. Had Bush 41 stayed true to that commitment, we could have seen a changing of the guard while leaving a relatively intact Iraq not needing to be rebuilt.

There are untold numbers of examples of this. Another one is just letting the Communists take Vietnam and letting the line of defense be their neighbors and the Philippines.
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What are these examples of???
 
#58
#58
"what is militarily correct isn't always politically expedient"

These are examples of the conflict between what would be militarily correct vs. politically expedient and vice versa.
 
#59
#59
CSpindizzy said:
A good example was the promising aid to the Shiites in southern Iraq at the end of the '91 Gulf War and then backing out, leaving them to be slaughtered. Had Bush 41 stayed true to that commitment, we could have seen a changing of the guard while leaving a relatively intact Iraq not needing to be rebuilt.

There are untold numbers of examples of this. Another one is just letting the Communists take Vietnam and letting the line of defense be their neighbors and the Philippines.
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I agree with the first paragraph, but I am going to have to disagree with the second paragraph. What leads you to believe that Communist expansion would have just ended in Vietnam?
 
#60
#60
I never said it would have ended. There are places that are not worth making a stand. It's better to defend places you have a better hold on and have better odds of suceeding in. Why fight a place that the Japanese and the French could not control? Eisenhower and even Kissinger all said it would have been better to essentially write off Vietnam and pick other areas around there to make a stand.
 
#61
#61
CSpindizzy said:
I never said it would have ended. There are places that are not worth making a stand. It's better to defend places you have a better hold on and have better odds of suceeding in. Why fight a place that the Japanese and the French could not control? Eisenhower and even Kissinger all said it would have been better to essentially write off Vietnam and pick other areas around there to make a stand.
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My personal belief is that if IKE would have committed troops to Vietnam in 1954, then it would still be French Indochina. I know it would have been a terrible strain on the military, seeing as we were strained from fighting in Korea, however, it would have been worth it in my opinion.
Eisenhower was a warrior as SHAEF Commander. Sadly, the same cannot be said about him during his presidency.
 
#62
#62
Back to the main point of this topic...here is the United Nations in all its glory:
Hizbollah mourners on a funeral parade shoved aside anti-tank barriers at a United Nations base in Lebanon yesterday in a demonstration of their new political strength.
The party had been told it would be allowed to bury three “martyrs” at the Naqoura town cemetery inside the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) compound, but only if there was no flag-waving or political sloganising.
When the chanting procession, several hundred strong, reached the gates, it found the way barred by cruci-form steel tank traps. Mourners argued with the French guards, but failed to gain entry.
A mob of young men then dragged the barriers away and the UN opened the gates. “They will eat us alive,” said a middle-aged official as the throng surged in.


LGF 8/21/06

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​
 
#63
#63
i still believe wesley clark would have made a good president. expect me back on topic when i read more into some things
 
#64
#64
Got in on this one late.....just wanted to comment that Wesley Clark has/had a fetish with Horse Calvary...................I need to find a picture of him on his white horse....good stuff..............

It is hard to get a precise opinion of Clark.....There never seems to be any middle ground just extremes in either direction from the center.

www.securingamerica.com
http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/DVNS_Wesley-Clark.htm
http://www.zpub.com/un/clark.html
http://prorev.com/clark.htm

When at a forum in September, retired Gen. Hugh Shelton was asked if he would support retired Gen. Wesley Clark for president, Shelton, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, quickly took a drink of water. "That question makes me wish it were vodka," Shelton said. "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote."​
Which was bad enough, but on November 6, retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf appeared on CNBC's Capital Report, hosted by Gloria Borger and Alan Murray, who asked him what he thought of Clark. "I think the greatest condemnation against him . . . came from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he was a NATO commander. I mean, he was fired as a NATO commander," Schwarzkopf replied, "and when Hugh Shelton said he was fired because of matters of character and integrity, that is a very, very damning statement, which says, `If that's the case, he's not the right man for president,' as far as I'm concerned."
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from-http://www.usnews.com
 
#65
#65
Hugh Shelton is a republican from what I can gather. Wesley Clark was released from his command (fired would be the word I guess) over differences with Shelton. Bill Clinton signed his release papers but was apparently led to believe that it was part of a normal sucession.
Honestly from everything that I have always heard about it, and what I have just given you is a very small part of it, the man was politiced out.
 
#66
#66
emainvol said:
Hugh Shelton is a republican from what I can gather. Wesley Clark was released from his command (fired would be the word I guess) over differences with Shelton. Bill Clinton signed his release papers but was apparently led to believe that it was part of a normal sucession.
Honestly from everything that I have always heard about it, and what I have just given you is a very small part of it, the man was politiced out.
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What exactly have you gathered? Hugh Shelton was a Southern Democrat, who was promoted to CJCS by the Clinton Administration. I, as well as everyone else, have no idea what the "character and integrity" issues are. However, I do not believe they were motivated by any allegiance to the GOP.
 
#67
#67
Its just a bit ironic that one can support a military man as president (Clark) yet condemn another military man (Shelton) for making politically based decisions - relieving Clark of command.

If Shelton was politicizing people out of jobs - why wouldn't that be expected of Clark as well?
 
#73
#73
CSpindizzy said:
Shelton. I was keeping with the discussion.
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I was unaware that Shelton's voting record was public. However, from personal talks with as well as reading many of his public statements, I have never been under the constant impression that he is most definitely a Southern Democrat.
 
#74
#74
Everyone's voting record is public. There may be issues with those such as the President but voting records are public information.
 
#75
#75
Like I said, I was under the impression that he was a Republican as well. But back to what you were saying earlier, I don't think Wesley Clark was necessarily pushed out by a GOP agenda, I was more or less just commenting on Shelton saying he wouldn't say whether he was a Dem or Rep. Shelton wanted him out because one of his buddies wanted the position, at least that is how I have always heard it. Regardless, I think Shelton should have kept his mouth shut before the election, because there are a lot of people who would disagree on the whole "why WC was fired from NATO" thing
 
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