Chase Utley just...

#26
#26
pismonque said:
Honestly, I haven't followed Utley closely enough over the years to gauge his dirty factor. But what I saw was a very common baseball play that overstepped the rules and a guy got hurt. And that part sucks.

But here's my thing: I made that same slide a jillion times and sometimes stretched the limit of legal slide, to varying degrees. But in the very worst slides I ever made, not once EVER did I give even a split second of thought to hurting the guy. Never. All I ever thought of when I was running to second knowing I was out dead to rights was NO DOUBLE PLAY, NO DOUBLE PLAY, NO DOUBLE PLAY. It happens fast and I just think Utley was running bases a bit over-aggressively, not aiming for injury.
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How about this. If Utley knew beforehand that he'd be breaking Tejada's leg on this dirty play, do you think he'd change it at all? I don't believe he'd change it one bit.

so yeah. I hope his playing days are taken away from him.
 
#27
#27
zjcvols said:
I did too but I always made sure to get a piece of the bag AND to never get my legs above a guys knees. Utley made no attempt at the bag. He went to take him out.
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And he "started" "sliding" about a foot in front of the bag. His intent was to stop the play by any means necessary, and that includes an injury. Then to give him 2nd base after the fact? Atrocious. Simply egregious.
 
#28
#28
I'm so outraged by this play that I'm struggling to remember how happy I felt in Neyland earlier today.
 
#29
#29
crusse10 said:
And he "started" "sliding" about a foot in front of the bag. His intent was to stop the play by any means necessary, and that includes an injury. Then to give him 2nd base after the fact? Atrocious. Simply egregious.
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That was screwy but....

First, I agree that he slid late, should have been called out on the slide. I agree that his intent was to take out the DP and that he was overzealous with it. I don't think his intent was to injure. All that I've said and I stand by it.
The whole replay mess I'm soooorta onboard with. I'm a proponent of the neighborhood play and I thought Tejada was close enough to get that call. Replay is inherently tricky with the neighborhood play and while I disagreed with their call it's an arguable interpretation so f*** it.

But the slide is a judgment call and shouldn't be reviewable. Reviews should be limited to black and white calls: beating a throw, foul/ fair, making a catch, etc. Once you start reviewing judgment calls it's too much of a slippery slope. Same with football.
 
#30
#30
pismonque said:
That was screwy but....

First, I agree that he slid late, should have been called out on the slide. I agree that his intent was to take out the DP and that he was overzealous with it. I don't think his intent was to injure. All that I've said and I stand by it.
The whole replay mess I'm soooorta onboard with. I'm a proponent of the neighborhood play and I thought Tejada was close enough to get that call. Replay is inherently tricky with the neighborhood play and while I disagreed with their call it's an arguable interpretation so f*** it.

But the slide is a judgment call and shouldn't be reviewable. Reviews should be limited to black and white calls: beating a throw, foul/ fair, making a catch, etc. Once you start reviewing judgment calls it's too much of a slippery slope. Same with football.
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I agree about the judgment call. My alteration would be to determine on the field if a play seems dirty. If it does (which that clearly was), then you can review to see if the play conceivably would have been made at 1st. I don't think that Tejada would have gotten the out at 1st. By how I'd change the rule, it would have been 2-2 with 2 outs and a runner on 1st. The inning ends the following play. By the way the rules are written (and getting tweeted everywhere), Utley had no intention of attempting to be safe at 2nd base. He started "sliding" incredibly late to the point that his momentum took him far past the base. With the egregious slide, it becomes an automatic out at 1st with the neighborhood play in effect for the out at 2nd. Inning-ending double play with a 2-1 lead for New York.
 
#31
#31
This is not a gray area. He launched himself at the fielder and he went up high. Whether he actually "intended to injure" the SS is irrelevant, because he sure as hell didn't care if he did. And that's garbage. It was a chickens*** play and he ought to be suspended.
 
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#32
#32
crusse10 said:
I agree about the judgment call. My alteration would be to determine on the field if a play seems dirty. If it does (which that clearly was), then you can review to see if the play conceivably would have been made at 1st. I don't think that Tejada would have gotten the out at 1st. By how I'd change the rule, it would have been 2-2 with 2 outs and a runner on 1st. The inning ends the following play. By the way the rules are written (and getting tweeted everywhere), Utley had no intention of attempting to be safe at 2nd base. He started "sliding" incredibly late to the point that his momentum took him far past the base. With the egregious slide, it becomes an automatic out at 1st with the neighborhood play in effect for the out at 2nd. Inning-ending double play with a 2-1 lead for New York.
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A good way to make something like that reviewable would be to more specifically define where a slide can start. Haven't thought through that enough to get a handle on the practicality though.

Also, I've always felt that a feet-first slide on a force play should require that a foot contact the base to limit egregious contact. On a tag play it's totally different due to avoiding the tag. But why not on a force?

Anyway, just walked in the door getting home from the Dodgers game so I'm going to whiz through the Georgia game on the DVR until my wife cones out to point out the time. Good talking to you and Go Vols!
 
#34
#34
Vercingetorix said:
This is not a gray area. He launched himself at the fielder and he went up high. Whether he actually "intended to injure" the SS is irrelevant, because he sure as hell didn't care if he did. And that's garbage. It was a chickens*** play and he ought to be suspended.
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This. The fact the thought of hurting the guy shouldn't matter. As much as I love sports morals(should be) > winning a game.
 
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