Chipper Jones v. George Brett

[Lexvol]

As I said, my complaint about him was cultural. There's a certain subset of the American Good Old Boy that's native to an band between about Albany, Georgia down to around Orlando, and Chipper's a pretty stereotypical member of the species. What makes his Hooters scandal so typical of that type is not that he was nailing a waitress; it's that someone who makes as much money as him was hanging around in a Hooters to begin with.

The "oddly casual, hickish vaunt" is just how they all talk down there. North Florida might as well be in Alabama.

I always considered Jacksonville to be part of South Georgia.

 

[BigPapaVol]

1) Disagree. Mantle, E. Murray and Rose, then perhaps Chipper.

2) Agreed. He's a lock. And he's just as good a hitter as Brett (in fact, it's a great comparison IMO).

Mantle had more pop and had enormous protection in the lineup around him. Murray was an RBI machine, but not a better hitter IMO. Rose was nothing but a singles slap hitter and just played longer than everyone else.

There's a very good argument for Chipper at the top of the switch hitter pile, if you consider all around hitting ability rather than just power or simply hits.

 

[jaybird_1981]

Mantle had more pop and had enormous protection in the lineup around him. Murray was an RBI machine, but not a better hitter IMO. Rose was nothing but a singles slap hitter and just played longer than everyone else.

There's a very good argument for Chipper at the top of the switch hitter pile, if you consider all around hitting ability rather than just power or simply hits.

I can see the Brett versus Chipper argument, maybe. But come on Mantle is head and shoulders above Larry.

 

[Vercingetorix]

I can see the Brett versus Chipper argument, maybe. But come on Mantle is head and shoulders above Larry.

That was my initial reaction, too. But if you look closely at the numbers and forget about the mythology, it's not quite the ridiculous comparison that you'd think. Mantle had a run of 9 or 10 seasons in which he was clearly not just better than Jones has ever been, but maybe better than anybody else who's ever played the game. But he was largely done by the time he was 33. Jones didn't have his first really good season until he was 26, but 11 years later know he's still obviously one of the best hitters in the league. If he can play at a high level for three or four more years, then you might be able to make a Koufax/Spahn type argument in favor of Chipper. (I.e, which would you rather have? Koufax was one of the best pitchers ever for about five years, but Spahn was 80 percent as good as that for _20_ years.)

I'll stick with Mantle. But if Larry's still playing at a high level in three years, I might have to think about it again.

 

[jaybird_1981]

That was my initial reaction, too. But if you look closely at the numbers and forget about the mythology, it's not quite the ridiculous comparison that you'd think. Mantle had a run of 9 or 10 seasons in which he was clearly not just better than Jones has ever been, but maybe better than anybody else who's ever played the game. But he was largely done by the time he was 33. Jones didn't have his first really good season until he was 26, but 11 years later know he's still obviously one of the best hitters in the league. If he can play at a high level for three or four more years, then you might be able to make a Koufax/Spahn type argument in favor of Chipper. (I.e, which would you rather have? Koufax was one of the best pitchers ever for about five years, but Spahn was 80 percent as good as that for _20_ years.)

I'll stick with Mantle. But if Larry's still playing at a high level in three years, I might have to think about it again.

But baseball unlike any other sport is about the mythology of it and for me Chipper will never equal Mantle. Mantle was a better defender, baserunner, better throwing arm, more power and he did a lot of his work hobbled.
And the Koufax versus Spahn comparison, I would take Koufax any day of the week.

 

[Vercingetorix]

But baseball unlike any other sport is about the mythology of it and for me Chipper will never equal Mantle. Mantle was a better defender, baserunner, better throwing arm, more power and he did a lot of his work hobbled.
And the Koufax versus Spahn comparison, I would take Koufax any day of the week.

That's a perfectly fine approach, but the problem is that it makes further conversation about it difficult, because at that point it's about beliefs, not facts. I never saw Mantle (or Koufax or Spahn) play, so all I have to go on is either the mythology or the statistics. I'll go with the evidence every time.

And believe me, I'm not arguing that Chipper Jones was a better baseball player than Mickey Mantle. I'm just saying that, if you regard longevity as opposed to just peak skill as important in evaluating baseball players, Chipper has a chance to get himself to the point where the comparison to Mantle as a switch-hitter is not completely ridiculous. And given how great Mantle was, that's saying something.

 

[The Dude]

Hobbled = hammered.

 

[TennNC]

Which is why, as far as I can tell, the best pure hitter of all time had to have been Ted Williams. Tony Gwynn's average with Hank Aaron's power, basically.

I'm with you. Even though I was too young to ever see him play, his numbers and what people say about him make me think there's nobody better. Especially considering the time he took off to go to war.

 

[Jaytrain5]

Both are great hitters...I think Brett would win in a steel cage match.