Christians, Jews in Holy Land alliance

[JZVOL]

I can understand where you are coming from for sure.

My only thing is this. Literally interpreting the New Testament of the Bible should lead one to love, tolerance and compassion. There are no calls for holy wars against infidels or anything like that. And on top of that, what other religion had their God, who created the universe, come to earth and allow himself to be sacrificed on a cross to save each and everyone of us, if we so choose? I find that simply amazing.

Literal interpretation of the Koran does lead one to holy war and hate.

IMO there is a big difference in the two

 

[utvolpj]

I can understand where you are coming from for sure.

My only thing is this. Literally interpreting the New Testament of the Bible should lead one to love, tolerance and compassion. There are no calls for holy wars against infidels or anything like that. And on top of that, what other religion had their God, who created the universe, come to earth and allow himself to be sacrificed on a cross to save each and everyone of us, if we so choose? I find that simply amazing.

Literal interpretation of the Koran does lead one to holy war and hate.

IMO there is a big difference in the two

There are many things in the NT besides love, tolerance, etc. They are the main story but not the whole one.

I see so few Christians that act like Christ would want. Quote from Ghandi:

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi

 

[JZVOL]

Well if it was about being perfect, we all would fail. Maybe we are unlike Christ because he was perfect, that seems like an easy concept to follow. Putting one's faith in Christ doesn't make one perfect. It is always funny to me though how people say well the Christians I see don't act like Christ would want and use that as an excuse to not follow Christ.

 

[JZVOL]

I'm curious what you believe. I'm not trying to be condesending I just really enjoy these type of discussions and learning from/about other people.

BTW not everyone who claims to know Christ is a Christian. Look for the fruits of the spirit.


Matthew 7:13-29

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

I know this is long but I feel very important. Gandhi missed to boat on what he said. There are many that claim to know Christ but there is no proof, meaning they truly don't know Christ and aren't followers of his.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

What does Islam have to do with 'liberal'?

A lot C. For one, our politicians are more worried about not offending people who are from other countries and other religions than they are the people who live here and their ancestors. If I say that Islam is a religion of violence when it comes to what they call salvation, then I am creating hate speech. Another thing is, Christianity is a religion of peace and choices , whereas Islam is a religion of laws and death. Before Jesus, there were no Christians just Jews and they followed a set of laws just like Islamics do today. They only difference is that Jews and Christians alike convert based on a choice to and not by the sword like Islamics like to try and do. Remember the reporter that "converted" to Islam just to save his neck?? Wonder if he still believes in Allah now that he is free?? I mean come on, when have you ever had someone come to your home. hold a sword to your neck, and say "Praise Jesus or die??"? If we keep going at the rate we are going, the Holy War we are fighting is going to be in our backyard because we are pandering to Islamic faith and telling Christians to stop creating hate speech. I've never heard any Christian I know say they want to kill an Islamic believer, but I have heard and seen in speeches that Islamics want to kill Christians.

 

[CSpindizzy]

A lot C. For one, our politicians are more worried about not offending people who are from other countries and other religions than they are the people who live here and their ancestors. If I say that Islam is a religion of violence when it comes to what they call salvation, then I am creating hate speech. Another thing is, Christianity is a religion of peace and choices , whereas Islam is a religion of laws and death. Before Jesus, there were no Christians just Jews and they followed a set of laws just like Islamics do today. They only difference is that Jews and Christians alike convert based on a choice to and not by the sword like Islamics like to try and do. Remember the reporter that "converted" to Islam just to save his neck?? Wonder if he still believes in Allah now that he is free?? I mean come on, when have you ever had someone come to your home. hold a sword to your neck, and say "Praise Jesus or die??"? If we keep going at the rate we are going, the Holy War we are fighting is going to be in our backyard because we are pandering to Islamic faith and telling Christians to stop creating hate speech. I've never heard any Christian I know say they want to kill an Islamic believer, but I have heard and seen in speeches that Islamics want to kill Christians.

Again, what does the whole offending someone get owned up by liberals? Pandering and not offending someone tends to go both ways. I fail to see this as being some liberal/conservative thing when both sides have a history of this sort of behavior.

 

[Jewbaccah]

Christians and Jews get along modernly because they both believe in freedom. Yes, prophecy is involved but both believe that faith has to be a choice. It can not be forced. Both believe in the goodness of helping others not just their own. That we are all born equal this is not an American value it comes from religious beliefs.

Islam does not and will not share in this belief. I have read the Koran and Koran equals Mein Kampf. It is written in a state of diluted hate in many parts and is a corrupted book that leaves no room for freedom or choice.

This is a Judeo-Christian society, the founders intended it to be so and I just hope the liberals (who I like on some issues but on this we part ways) don't get us all killed because of their fear of religion and people of faith. Fear of faith is no different then any other kind of prejudice.

Israel is a society that believes in freedom wants no more than to be left alone but is being assaulted and murdered by raging lunatics. These lunatics are not trying to get any land that was taken from them. Jerusalem has never and I mean never been non majority Jewish. The lunes are abused victims of a corrupt Muslim society. Who are used and brainwashed into committing crimes against humanity and G-d. The goal is and has always been a fully Muslim society whether the goal is achieved by force or peacefully the Koran does not care. Go Vols!!! and Shalom

 

[JZVOL]

^ Good points. I noticed you mentioned freedom a lot. That is the big difference between Islam and Christianity.

After all "Democracy is Founded in Scripture", John Wise.

 

[Jewbaccah]

^ Good points. I noticed you mentioned freedom a lot. That is the big difference between Islam and Christianity.

After all "Democracy is Founded in Scripture", John Wise.

Exactly, The Bible Old and New preaches the importance of Sovereignty. Judges, Kings, etc. The point of these books or one point from them was you do not need a central leader--you only need G-d. Thus, why Jews feel they needed their own state. It is how we develop spiritually only as free people. :hi:

 

[vader]

I have always felt that Jesus' view have a very Socialist lean. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, love your neighbor.

I find it ironic that the "religious right" do not seem to agree with these views. That does not follow the capitalist model. What do you think Jesus would think of our capitalist society and the debate over socialized health care?

Edit: I am not saying that Socialism has a "love your neighbor" attitude in any way.

 

[JZVOL]

I have always felt that Jesus' view have a very Socialist lean. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, love your neighbor.

I find it ironic that the "religious right" do not seem to agree with these views. That does not follow the capitalist model. What do you think Jesus would think of our capitalist society and the debate over socialized health care?

Edit: I am not saying that Socialism has a "love your neighbor" attitude in any way.

To my knowledge his teaching were not about politics, but personal relationships. He never said how the government should be run. Running a nation and every day life with your neighbors and community are different.

 

[vader]

To my knowledge his teaching were not about politics, but personal relationships. He never said how the government should be run. Running a nation and every day life with your neighbors and community are different.

But how do you not let your personal views affect the way you view things such as universal healthcare, welfare, the homeless, etc?

 

[JZVOL]

But how do you not let your personal views affect the way you view things such as universal healthcare, welfare, the homeless, etc?

I know you aren't speaking specifically to me so I'm not sure how to answer that for other people. I just think most people can see how Communism or a Socialist type of government is not the way for a nation to run.

I would imagine most people view what they give to charities, volunteering time or do through church outreach programs as adhearing to what Christ was talking about.

I don't think Christ had running a nation in mind when speaking about how other should be treated.

 

[GVF]

I have always felt that Jesus' view have a very Socialist lean. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, love your neighbor.

I find it ironic that the "religious right" do not seem to agree with these views. That does not follow the capitalist model. What do you think Jesus would think of our capitalist society and the debate over socialized health care?

Edit: I am not saying that Socialism has a "love your neighbor" attitude in any way.

In a way that is not far from truth. There are examples of instruction to take of your means to help others. There are examples of instruction to sell your things to give to others. The emphasis on giving and not necessarily disbanding all you have. How would you continue to give. You'd then become one of hte needy. But, then we are taught to be needful of God, that he supplys all our needs. So ,if anyone is feeling really giving, I'm really needy.:birgits_giggle::thumbsup:

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I have always felt that Jesus' view have a very Socialist lean. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, love your neighbor.

I find it ironic that the "religious right" do not seem to agree with these views. That does not follow the capitalist model. What do you think Jesus would think of our capitalist society and the debate over socialized health care?

Edit: I am not saying that Socialism has a "love your neighbor" attitude in any way.

I don't think Jesus ever meant that as a government role.

I believe it is the failure of the Church over the past 100 years by not feeding, clothing and finding jobs for the poor.

As soon as the church became a social club, it started losing its foothold in the community.

 

[JZVOL]

I don't think Jesus ever meant that as a government role.

I believe it is the failure of the Church over the past 100 years by not feeding, clothing and finding jobs for the poor.

As soon as the church became a social club, it started losing its foothold in the community.

:thumbsup:

That's exactly what I was trying to say!

 

[vader]

I don't think Jesus ever meant that as a government role.

I believe it is the failure of the Church over the past 100 years by not feeding, clothing and finding jobs for the poor.

As soon as the church became a social club, it started losing its foothold in the community.

:thumbsup: Well put.

 

[Jewbaccah]

I have always felt that Jesus' view have a very Socialist lean. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, help the poor, love your neighbor.

I find it ironic that the "religious right" do not seem to agree with these views. That does not follow the capitalist model. What do you think Jesus would think of our capitalist society and the debate over socialized health care?

Edit: I am not saying that Socialism has a "love your neighbor" attitude in any way.

Judaism and Christianity do indeed preach a socialist like society but not through government. It is the choice to feed and help your neighbor that is important. That choice can never be freely given if forced. Further, Socialism in the government sense requires a very centralized government which is exactly what the Bible goes against. Capitalism is a mere choice you can choose to work for only your own profit or you can choose to work for the profit of the community. G-d gave us free will for very good reasons.:hi:

Many Jewish communities pre-WW11 were in fact socialist but not by government decree but by choice. Israel still has many Kibbutzes which are Socialist family oriented units. They operate in a free market externally but internally are entirely socialist. No one has to stay in the community it is a choice and one community cannot tell another what to do. They do pool resources for health care and education.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Yes. Christianity does preach a message not applied to government. But there are some who choose to take control of government and apply their own version of Christianity to society. A good example that I saw firsthand back in 2004 election - we had numerous Christian and 'pro-family' groups pouring in millions upon millions of dollars to influence the election. Millions of dollars were used on commercials and mailings (of which typically get tossed in the trash). Autodial phone calls went out for GOTV efforts. Within two years or one election later, the exact opposite of what they were trying to achieve occurred. Millions upon millions were spent on elections which typically are overturned when the true mission of these groups should have been focused on other areas.