Citizens

#1
T

therealUT

Rational Thought Allowed?
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#1
In your opinion, what does it mean to be a Citizen? Do you think Citizenship should be a birthright, or do you think one must both earn their Citizenship and continue to maintain their Citizenship through the fulfillment of certain Civic Duties?
 
#2
#2
therealUT said:
In your opinion, what does it mean to be a Citizen? Do you think Citizenship should be a birthright, or do you think one must both earn their Citizenship and continue to maintain their Citizenship through the fulfillment of certain Civic Duties?
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Service to the state equals citizenship?

Are we talking mandatory military service, etc?

Are there benefits to be a citizen?
 
#3
#3
OrangeEmpire said:
Service to the state equals citizenship?

Are we talking mandatory military service, etc?

Are there benefits to be a citizen?
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Possible Duties Involve:
- Military Service
- Service in a Civic Capacity (maybe mandatory police, fire, emergency service)
- Jury Duty
- Mandatory Involvement with Civic Counsels
- Paying taxes

Possible Benefits/Privileges of Citizenship:
- The ability to vote
- The ability to own property
- The ability to be tried by a jury of peers
- The ability to receive tax refunds
 
#10
#10
therealUT said:
Possible Benefits/Privileges of Citizenship:
- The ability to vote
- The ability to own property
- The ability to be tried by a jury of peers
- The ability to receive tax refunds
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So if I choose not to donate my time to civic duties, then

- I will have no say so in representation in Government
- Only have the ability to rent from others
- Can be thrown in jail at a whim
- Government can take as much money from me as it desires

Sounds pretty close to what we have now.
 
#14
#14
Although they were at times attacked as terrorists in the US media, the Zapatistas have a very interesting take on citizenship (and yes, I know that's in Mexico). In particular, one of their leaders, Subcommandante Marcos, has a notion of non-hierarchical citizenship that is very interesting, one aspect of this kind of citizenship being that each member of society serves a two week (I think) term on a leadership committee (at some point in their lives) that makes all of the necessary decisions for the social group at large. Perhaps impractical but intriguing nonetheless. It certainly does make you think more about what it means possibly to be a citizen (even a democratic citizen) from another political perspective than the ones most often shared in this nation.
 
#18
#18
therealUT said:
In your opinion, what does it mean to be a Citizen? Do you think Citizenship should be a birthright, or do you think one must both earn their Citizenship and continue to maintain their Citizenship through the fulfillment of certain Civic Duties?
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i think you should be able to walk across the border and be a citizen

just pay your taxes
 
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#19
#19
therealUT said:
Not in any capacity? One has no duties to the state?
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Personally I think obligated service to the state can lead down a dangerous path. It leads to nationalism, which is dangerous in and of itself, in my mind.
 
#21
#21
vol_in_il said:
i think you should be able to walk across the border and be a citizen

just pay your taxes
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Burhead said:
Personally I think obligated service to the state can lead down a dangerous path. It leads to nationalism, which is dangerous in and of itself, in my mind.
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Military service certainly could lead to nationalism. However, mandating that one serve a year as a police officer, fire-fighter, EMT, etc. in order to gain certain benefits and privileges seems no more worrisome than mandating that all children complete 10-12 years of compulsory education (or, indoctrination of some sort by the state).

Further, I think jury-duty is a major duty of citizenship. It might be the greatest duty you owe to your fellow citizen. Yet, the first thing individuals want to do is get out of jury-duty when they are selected (if they are even selected). Personally, I think that juries should be expanded from twelve to 100-200; that jury nullification should be permitted and encouraged; and that conviction should rest on a 75% vote. This would ensure that citizens are called often to fulfill their duty, and in doing so, they take on a very important role in their fellow citizens lives. Of course, one could opt out and forfeit their privileges if they feel they are too busy for jury-duty.
 
#22
#22
Permanent residents of the US can work and enjoy the same rights as citizens but cannot vote or hold office. Many permanent residents eventually become citizens but I am not aware that the reverse is possible. It sounds like what you are suggesting is for more mobility between these two states. So, for those born in the US, at a certain age, one would decide to either become a citizen which would require certain duties or become a permanent resident. If one did not fulfill the obligations of citizenship then one would automatically become a permanent resident.

I have never thought about this but it seems reasonable.
 
#23
#23
OldandStillaVol said:
Permanent residents of the US can work and enjoy the same rights as citizens but cannot vote or hold office. Many permanent residents eventually become citizens but I am not aware that the reverse is possible. It sounds like what you are suggesting is for more mobility between these two states. So, for those born in the US, at a certain age, one would decide to either become a citizen which would require certain duties or become a permanent resident. If one did not fulfill the obligations of citizenship then one would automatically become a permanent resident.

I have never thought about this but it seems reasonable.
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This is pretty much what I am thinking.
 
#24
#24
therealUT said:
Not in any capacity? One has no duties to the state?
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I don't believe anyone owes anything to the state.

IMO, citizens should involve themselves in their community (as the founding fathers hoped they would), but involvement should not be compulsory.
 
#25
#25
Pepe_Silvia said:
I don't believe anyone owes anything to the state.

IMO, citizens should involve themselves in their community (as the founding fathers hoped they would), but involvement should not be compulsory.
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So, if someone chooses not to pay any taxes, you are fine with that (even if it meant that you would simply receive an IOU on your LES)? If someone chooses not to serve on a jury, you are okay with that as well (even if it meant that everyone who had a job, were given the choice not to serve on the jury so that they would not miss work; leaving a jury, at your own trial, full of unemployed individuals)?
 
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