Civil but Uncivil - The Obama Paradox

#1
volinbham

volinbham

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#1
This article perfectly illustrates what I like least about Obama - his double talk BS.

Demagoguery 101 - The Washington Post

The El Paso speech is notable not for breaking any new ground on immigration but for perfectly illustrating Obama’s political style: the professorial, almost therapeutic, invitation to civil discourse, wrapped around the basest of rhetorical devices — charges of malice compounded with accusations of bad faith. “They’ll never be satisfied,” said Obama about border control. “And I understand that. That’s politics.”

How understanding. The other side plays “politics,” Obama acts in the public interest. Their eyes are on poll numbers, political power, the next election; Obama’s rest fixedly on the little children.
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I seriously wonder if anyone buys this schtick anymore.
 
#2
#2
Politicians portray themselves as reasonable and rational and then portray their rivals as acting in bad faith or out of allegiance to some negatively viewed business or special interest group !?!?

No way !!! Get out !!! This cannot possibly be true ... of all of them.
 
#3
#3
lawgator1 said:
Politicians portray themselves as reasonable and rational and then portray their rivals as acting in bad faith or out of allegiance to some negatively viewed business or special interest group !?!?

No way !!! Get out !!! This cannot possibly be true ... of all of them.
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It's not that - it repeatedly doing it over and over in the same speech. Let's be civil - they want to kill old people - we need to work together constructively - they'll never agree to anything - I'm above politics - my opponents only serve special interests.

Honestly, the budget speech he gave and the immigration speech were hard core political demagoguery but then he has the cajones to say he's open to all good solutions and wants to be civil, constructive, bipartisan.

Hell, he even publicly said if we are going to tackle the big problems on spending we CANNOT attack the other side and attribute negative motives -- of course he went 180 on that one.

I'd have more respect for him if he left out all the calls for civility and constructive debate which he clearly doesn't mean at all.
 
#4
#4
volinbham said:
This article perfectly illustrates what I like least about Obama - his double talk BS.

Demagoguery 101 - The Washington Post



I seriously wonder if anyone buys this schtick anymore.
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Unfortunately, it is what one has to retort to when they have little to now experience and/or accomplishments in policy and must somehow persuade an uneducated electorate that his stance, his ideology, and his views are correct.

It would be much better and more constructive if he provided a clear goal for his immigration policy and then argued, based on merit and logic, for the most constructive means he sees in achieving those goals.
 
#5
#5
One of the things that frustrate me the most is he acts like he is above politics, above the fray of name calling and bickering back and forth. When he is in the fact always criticizing and bashing the other side. He is the most divisive President in our history.
 
#7
#7
therealUT said:
It would be much better and more constructive if he provided a clear goal for his immigration policy and then argued, based on merit and logic, for the most constructive means he sees in achieving those goals.
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Amen.

For a supposedly brilliant Constitutional lawyer he is a terrible debater. He uses Freshman level strawmen to establish his "reasoned" solution.
 
#8
#8
He doesn't have time to give clear policy, he's too busy on his "I killed Osama" tour. The polls seem to show it's getting rave reviews.
 
#12
#12
IPorange said:
It won't last, Carter. If we're anything in America, it's fickle.
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I'm not sure about that. Do people really care about the issues? The polls don't seem to reflect a answer of yes. Although i'm not sure these polls are all that accurate to begin with. He can't keep dancing around them forever, at least a few people might catch on, probably not enough to matter though.
 
#13
#13
Cartervol said:
I'm not sure about that. Do people really care about the issues? The polls don't seem to reflect a answer of yes. Although i'm not sure these polls are all that accurate to begin with. He can't keep dancing around them forever, at least a few people might catch on, probably not enough to matter though.
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That poll that gave him a 60% approval had a built in 17% advantage to dems.
 
#18
#18
therealUT said:
It would be much better and more constructive if he provided a clear goal for his immigration policy and then argued, based on merit and logic, for the most constructive means he sees in achieving those goals.
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I think in some ways he has been pretty clear on immigration. Close your eyes, and turn your head.

Basically his non clear stance on "action" toward an immigration policy makes sense with his opinion of the AZ law.
 
#19
#19
i didnt find the jokes about moats and gators very funny and were not in good taste, but I am sure the Chicago people think its hilarious
 
#21
#21
VolsNSkinsFan said:
i didnt find the jokes about moats and gators very funny and were not in good taste, but I am sure the Chicago people think its hilarious
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Then you have entirely too thin of a skin.

Look, the reason that his presidency is so "divisive" is because that's the road the Republicans took with Obama as they did with Clinton. The level of intensity directed towards Obama (as it was Clinton) was entirely disproportionate to the level of antagonism from the Democratic side. I've never seen a President's every action twisted and manipulated against him as has happened to Obama. The level of hysteria directed towards him is phenomenal and based upon a host of alarmist proclamations with little basis in reality, like the "Obama is a Marxist" stuff. Part of this is politica, which I understand as the Democrats do the same stuff, but the level of vitriol combined with the general lack of understanding why the vitriol is a serious issue on the right wing.

The modern development of this came in 1994 when the Republican takeover happened and the new freshman Congressman interpreted it as a mandate to assault and harass Clinton on every possible occasions. That's why we get sideshows like the Monica Lewinsky nonsense that doesn't happen under a Republican president.
 
#22
#22
"was entirely disproportionate to the level of antagonism from the Democratic side."


whhaaaaa?

bush?????
 
#23
#23
Unimane said:
Then you have entirely too thin of a skin.

Look, the reason that his presidency is so "divisive" is because that's the road the Republicans took with Obama as they did with Clinton. The level of intensity directed towards Obama (as it was Clinton) was entirely disproportionate to the level of antagonism from the Democratic side. I've never seen a President's every action twisted and manipulated against him as has happened to Obama. The level of hysteria directed towards him is phenomenal and based upon a host of alarmist proclamations with little basis in reality, like the "Obama is a Marxist" stuff. Part of this is politica, which I understand as the Democrats do the same stuff, but the level of vitriol combined with the general lack of understanding why the vitriol is a serious issue on the right wing.

The modern development of this came in 1994 when the Republican takeover happened and the new freshman Congressman interpreted it as a mandate to assault and harass Clinton on every possible occasions. That's why we get sideshows like the Monica Lewinsky nonsense that doesn't happen under a Republican president.
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you were apparently out of the country during most of George W. Bush's presidency

I will, however, concede your point when the Cannes Film Festival warmly receives a film depicting the assassination of Obama.
 
#24
#24
MG1968 said:
you were apparently out of the country during most of George W. Bush's presidency

I will, however, concede your point when the Cannes Film Festival warmly receives a film depicting the assassination of Obama.
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Oh, I was here, and Bush had pretty tepid opposition until 9/11, then had 90% approval rating after the event. There's nothing, nothing Obama could ever do that would allow his numbers to rise to this level. Besides, Bush's antagonism resulted from his actions in Iraq and the Patriot Act, not from a contrived daily outrage like the birth certificate deal or who was invited to recite a poem at the White House.

As far as the movie, we're talking about some foreign film, not something akin to the Tea Party, which was founded less than a month into Obama's term.
 
#25
#25
no president in american history has had to deal with more vitrol than george bush. and that includes nixon.
 
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