Civil but Uncivil - The Obama Paradox

#26
#26
Unimane said:
Oh, I was here, and Bush had pretty tepid opposition until 9/11, then had 90% approval rating after the event. There's nothing, nothing Obama could ever do that would allow his numbers to rise to this level. Besides, Bush's antagonism resulted from his actions in Iraq and the Patriot Act, not from a contrived daily outrage like the birth certificate deal or who was invited to recite a poem at the White House.

As far as the movie, we're talking about some foreign film, not something akin to the Tea Party, which was founded less than a month into Obama's term.
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Bush's National Guard service?

meetings with oil executives?

Katrina?

anti-war rallies?

If you think the opposition to Obama is based solely on contrived issues like his birth certificate, you're delusional.
 
#27
#27
Unimane said:
Then you have entirely too thin of a skin.

Look, the reason that his presidency is so "divisive" is because that's the road the Republicans took with Obama as they did with Clinton. The level of intensity directed towards Obama (as it was Clinton) was entirely disproportionate to the level of antagonism from the Democratic side. I've never seen a President's every action twisted and manipulated against him as has happened to Obama. The level of hysteria directed towards him is phenomenal and based upon a host of alarmist proclamations with little basis in reality, like the "Obama is a Marxist" stuff. Part of this is politica, which I understand as the Democrats do the same stuff, but the level of vitriol combined with the general lack of understanding why the vitriol is a serious issue on the right wing.
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so the "Bush = Hitler" stuff isn't as bad as the marxist stuff? And the level of personal hatred is no different (and I might say lower) than when Bush was there. In fact the cries of war crimes are still going. Amazing how short people's memories are

Unimane said:
Oh, I was here, and Bush had pretty tepid opposition until 9/11, then had 90% approval rating after the event. There's nothing, nothing Obama could ever do that would allow his numbers to rise to this level. Besides, Bush's antagonism resulted from his actions in Iraq and the Patriot Act, not from a contrived daily outrage like the birth certificate deal or who was invited to recite a poem at the White House.
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so Obama got rid of the Patriot Act?
 
#28
#28
droski said:
no president in american history has had to deal with more vitrol than george bush. and that includes nixon.
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Baloney. Please explain to me the equivalent of the birth certificate issue or the daily outrage meter or a political party being born right as his term began specifically to antagonize him. Bush's problems were of his own doing, which resulted in a bi-partisan contempt of his ineptitude as president. Nixon had a smaller window of vitriol because he was actually a criminal, but skipped town before it truly hit the fan.
 
#29
#29
Unimane said:
Baloney. Please explain to me the equivalent of the birth certificate issue or the daily outrage meter or a political party being born right as his term began specifically to antagonize him. Bush's problems were of his own doing, which resulted in a bi-partisan contempt of his ineptitude as president. Nixon had a smaller window of vitriol because he was actually a criminal, but skipped town before it truly hit the fan.
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i guess comparing him to hitler, saying he should be tried for war crimes, and having shoes thrown at him are not as bad as birthgate. and if you think if bush had a similar situation that the democrats wouldn't have gone nuts and tried to get him kicked out you are delusional.
 
#30
#30
Unimane said:
Oh, I was here, and Bush had pretty tepid opposition until 9/11, then had 90% approval rating after the event. There's nothing, nothing Obama could ever do that would allow his numbers to rise to this level. Besides, Bush's antagonism resulted from his actions in Iraq and the Patriot Act, not from a contrived daily outrage like the birth certificate deal or who was invited to recite a poem at the White House.

As far as the movie, we're talking about some foreign film, not something akin to the Tea Party, which was founded less than a month into Obama's term.
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It was founded because it didnt take Americans too long to figure out that we didnt want to pay for someones mortgage who doesnt even pay their bills on time
 
#31
#31
I never get tired of the "Whose president of choice was ostricized the most?" pizzing contests.

Pure gold.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#32
#32
droski said:
i guess comparing him to hitler, saying he should be tried for war crimes, and having shoes thrown at him are not as bad as birthgate. and if you think if bush had a similar situation that the democrats wouldn't have gone nuts and tried to get him kicked out you are delusional.
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Obama as Hitler is quite the popular placard as well. Those people are fringe, anyway, and a poor comparison. The "Obama=socialism" stuff is not. The shoe guy was Iraqi, not American and birthgate has been kept alive by the right wing media outlets.

Still, nothing encapsulates my point to the fact that the anti-Obama Tea Party was founded in February 2009. The hysteria against Obama has been relentless since his inaguration, while Bush had to royally muck up before he started getting hit over the head and, even then, it was almost all in relation to deserved criticism of his actual actions (not manipulations, as is so often of the attacks on Obama).
 
#35
#35
Unimane said:
Obama as Hitler is quite the popular placard as well. Those people are fringe, anyway, and a poor comparison. The "Obama=socialism" stuff is not. The shoe guy was Iraqi, not American and birthgate has been kept alive by the right wing media outlets.

Still, nothing encapsulates my point to the fact that the anti-Obama Tea Party was founded in February 2009. The hysteria against Obama has been relentless since his inaguration, while Bush had to royally muck up before he started getting hit over the head and, even then, it was almost all in relation to deserved criticism of his actual actions (not manipulations, as is so often of the attacks on Obama).
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i've never seen it.

i suppose it had nothing to do with govt spending doubling in the span of 2 months. nah it must be because a black guy got elected (playing the race card since i knew you were going to there soon).

and you don't think there is any deserved criticism of obama's actions?
 
#36
#36
droski said:
i've never seen it.

i suppose it had nothing to do with govt spending doubling in the span of 2 months. nah it must be because a black guy got elected (playing the race card since i knew you were going to there soon).

and you don't think there is any deserved criticism of obama's actions?
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You've never seen it?

Tea party billboard comparing Barack Obama to Hitler, Lenin, covered up: group calls it bad decision - New York Daily News

OBAMA IS HITLER!!!! | RedState

David A. Harris: Are Obama-Hitler Comparisons Okay?

Plus, the party started within weeks of his inaguration, well before your "doubling in 2 months" justification. And, I hadn't brought up the race thing, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure it's simply a coincidence that Obama polled at a significantly lower number for white males than previous Democratic nominees. I'm sure race was irrelevant.
 
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#40
#40
Unimane said:
Yeah, a few weeks, as I stated. Certainly, plenty of time to give a newly elected president to implement his policies and begin his administration.
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less than 3 months into office he'd signed into law two bills amounting to over 1 trillion in deficit spending. Is that supposed to just be overlooked because he's new in town?
 
#41
#41
VolsNSkinsFan said:
According to the NYTimes, it took 29 days from when Obama took office

Rick Santelli: Tea Party Time - NYTimes.com

Kinda ironic that it started with a rant in Chicago, you would think the way the tea party is portrayed, it was founded in Mississippi
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Santelli's rant was worth two, maybe three days of media attention. He and his team talk about it, allude to it, try to recreate it, pretty much everyday. I am stunned, I tell you, stunned, that a business network would frequently criticize Obama. Just can't believe it. :ermm:

Now the guy is the equivalent of Fox & Friends every morning but on CNBC. Another overplaying of a hand by an Obama critic.
 
#42
#42
Unimane said:
Yeah, a few weeks, as I stated. Certainly, plenty of time to give a newly elected president to implement his policies and begin his administration.
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Like the $8000 tax credit for new home buyers? How is that deal working out for the sheep stupid enough to think that was a great deal? Not only has that $8K in equity vaporized, but another 20% on top too.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
Santelli's rant was worth two, maybe three days of media attention. He and his team talk about it, allude to it, try to recreate it, pretty much everyday. I am stunned, I tell you, stunned, that a business network would frequently criticize Obama. Just can't believe it. :ermm:

Now the guy is the equivalent of Fox & Friends every morning but on CNBC. Another overplaying of a hand by an Obama critic.
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if you think cnbc is a consistant obama critic i really don't know what to tell you. their head economics reporter leasmon (sp?) is an obama spokeshole. cramer was a huge obama supporter as were most of the anchors.
 
#44
#44
droski said:
if you think cnbc is a consistant obama critic i really don't know what to tell you. their head economics reporter leasmon (sp?) is an obama spokeshole. cramer was a huge obama supporter as were most of the anchors.
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CNBC just upgraded GM to an Ultra Mega Buy. They seriously feel that if you dont buy GM stock, you are unAmerican.

I grew up with "Read my Lips, No new taxes" and watched GB Sr get run out of town because of 1 campaign promise not followed through. Obama has multiple reneged campaign promiseses, 20+ Million unemployed, $4 gas, huge deficits, crashing housing market, 50 Million on food stamps, and everything is cool. Just one big Tea Party conspiracy. When are people going to wake up and realize you are being played like a fiddle
 
#45
#45
droski said:
if you think cnbc is a consistant obama critic i really don't know what to tell you. their head economics reporter leasmon (sp?) is an obama spokeshole. cramer was a huge obama supporter as were most of the anchors.
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Valid point. I should focus my comments there on Santelli. Consider it amended.
 
#46
#46
Unimane said:
Then you have entirely too thin of a skin.

Look, the reason that his presidency is so "divisive" is because that's the road the Republicans took with Obama as they did with Clinton. The level of intensity directed towards Obama (as it was Clinton) was entirely disproportionate to the level of antagonism from the Democratic side. I've never seen a President's every action twisted and manipulated against him as has happened to Obama. The level of hysteria directed towards him is phenomenal and based upon a host of alarmist proclamations with little basis in reality, like the "Obama is a Marxist" stuff. Part of this is politica, which I understand as the Democrats do the same stuff, but the level of vitriol combined with the general lack of understanding why the vitriol is a serious issue on the right wing.

The modern development of this came in 1994 when the Republican takeover happened and the new freshman Congressman interpreted it as a mandate to assault and harass Clinton on every possible occasions. That's why we get sideshows like the Monica Lewinsky nonsense that doesn't happen under a Republican president.
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Did you forget 2000-2008? Seriously?
 
#49
#49
Unimane said:
Baloney. Please explain to me the equivalent of the birth certificate issue or the daily outrage meter or a political party being born right as his term began specifically to antagonize him. Bush's problems were of his own doing, which resulted in a bi-partisan contempt of his ineptitude as president. Nixon had a smaller window of vitriol because he was actually a criminal, but skipped town before it truly hit the fan.
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I love how you present objective views. I would say that Obama is every bit as inept as Bush but in your world criticism of Bush was valid but of Obama is simply mean spirited vitriol.

this is exactly why the whole "civility" thing is a canard. People that showed complete lack of civility then with Bush and now with Republicans get all bent out of shape a the lack of civility from the Right.

It's absurd and delusional.
 
#50
#50
Besides the Bush stuff started from Day 1 with the "he stole the election" crap.

He was attacked for his drug/drinking history while Obama has not been.

His military service was attacked (similar to the birther)

His education was attacked

He was accused of planning 9/11

He was accused of starting 2 wars to help his "oil buddies"

He was routinely referenced as Hitler and a war criminal (interesting that the same actions from Obama have drawn no such criticism).

It was regularly suggested that he went war to avenge his daddy (by one group) or to show up his daddy (by another group)

It was routinely said he hates black people, poor people

He was accused of extreme use of executive power eventhough Obama has taken it a step further

He was labeled a moron, a simpleton

Etc., etc., etc.

There was nothing civil about how he was treated.
 
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