Clemens vs McNamee, the trial that isn't a trial

#26
#26
KLayneUT8 said:
Mcnamee is a crook he is a liar and hes dirty......for the mst part i thought them member were on clemens side but the judge was on Mcnamaa side.....lol i mean i just an 19 year old teen and that what i took from i sure other people may think i wrong but my opiniono only
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there were definitely 3 or 4 of them squarely against Roger from what I watched.
 
#27
#27
Clemens would have done a lot better if he had just admitted to some kind of low-grade, "once or twice" scale usage. "I made a mistake; I was only using it to get over an injury," etc. etc. The media would have howled about it for a few days, but it would have blown over. He's like a guy whose wife caught him making suspicious phone calls or something -- he lies, and then he has to lie again to cover up that lie, and then again, and the next thing he knows he's lying under oath to the United States Congress. Admitting it like Pettitte did to begin with would have been so much easier in the long run.
 
#28
#28
Clemens and McNamee are both liars. Waxman and the rest of the members of his committee need to be voted out of office come November for wasting the people's time with this crap. Now Arlen Spector wants to stick his nose into the NFL.:banghead2: This country has real issues that Congress needs to address instead of grandstanding with professional sports.
 
#29
#29
Vercingetorix said:
Clemens would have done a lot better if he had just admitted to some kind of low-grade, "once or twice" scale usage. "I made a mistake; I was only using it to get over an injury," etc. etc. The media would have howled about it for a few days, but it would have blown over. He's like a guy whose wife caught him making suspicious phone calls or something -- he lies, and then he has to lie again to cover up that lie, and then again, and the next thing he knows he's lying under oath to the United States Congress. Admitting it like Pettitte did to begin with would have been so much easier in the long run.
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Initially I thought that the Barry Bonds route would work for Clemens. Now I tend to agree with your assessment. He is in a heap of trouble now.
 
#30
#30
Roger had a really bad day yesterday. I think it is a little too late now for him to try the alternate route.
 
#31
#31
He's backed himself into a corner now! The bad thing is if he would have come clean he would have been forgiven and he would still go into the hall of fame. He has chosen to go the Pete Rose way. Good luck Roger!
 
#32
#32
Did anyone else feel like the whole hearing was useless because it was if you had a couple of Roger/Yankee homers that wouldn't believe McNamee if he had a videotape of himself injecting with Roger while Roger was talking about what this particular steroid would do and on the other side there were the typical Roger haters who just wanted to see him go down?
 
#33
#33
Roger is setting himself up as the "unknowing" steriod user.

"Mcnamee shot me up with what? He told me it was B-12, not HGH. That lying son of a bitch..."

Watch and see, that's how it is going to turn out before it's said and done.
 
#34
#34
justingroves said:
Roger is setting himself up as the "unknowing" steriod user.

"Mcnamee shot me up with what? He told me it was B-12, not HGH. That lying son of a bitch..."

Watch and see, that's how it is going to turn out before it's said and done.
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and there is absolutely no way to prove otherwise.
 
#35
#35
volfanbill said:
Did anyone else feel like the whole hearing was useless because it was if you had a couple of Roger/Yankee homers that wouldn't believe McNamee if he had a videotape of himself injecting with Roger while Roger was talking about what this particular steroid would do and on the other side there were the typical Roger haters who just wanted to see him go down?
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I'd agree that anybody who came into it with a strong opinion either way probably didn't see enough to have his opinion changed. (Disclaimer: I've been convinced Clemens was juicing for at least 7 or 8 years.) However, I think enough stuff came out this week to make a lot of people who didn't know what to think less likely to believe Clemens. You had Pettitte corroborating McNamee's testimony, Knoblauch corroborating McNamee's testimony, the weird stuff with the nanny, the bizarre story that Clemens's wife was using HGH but not Clemens himself....is there enough to convict him of perjury? No way. Is there enough to convince most people that the the most likely explanation is that Clemens' categorical "I never used anything at any time" denial simply isn't true? Probably.

The unfortunate thing from Clemens' perspective is that the whole point of his denials was to rescue some of his reputation, and from that standpoint, he seems to have failed abjectly. His "60 Minutes" interview, his PR campaign, his congressional testimony -- all of that, and he doesn't seem to have convinced anyone. He should have just stayed home in Texas and kept his mouth shut.

And it absolutely can't be said often enough -- why is Congress bothering with this, again?
 
#36
#36
justingroves said:
Roger is setting himself up as the "unknowing" steriod user.

"Mcnamee shot me up with what? He told me it was B-12, not HGH. That lying son of a bitch..."

Watch and see, that's how it is going to turn out before it's said and done.
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and if anyone actually falls for that garbage they should be sentenced right beside Clemens. Chuck and Andy's stories from McNamee are true, why isn't this one? For someone as intelligent and honest and Mr. Pettite, he sure does have a hard time understanding his best friend. Roger is full of crap and I don't think ESPN is even going to let him off the hook on this one. He's guilty, he knows it, and eventually it will come out. Eventually might be 20 years though.
 
#38
#38
Vercingetorix said:
Unfortunately for Clemens, the burden of proof is significantly lower in Hall of Fame balloting than it is in a jury room.
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So after getting rejected from the HOF for a few years, will Roger finally back down and admit that he was a user?
 
#39
#39
volfanbill said:
So after getting rejected from the HOF for a few years, will Roger finally back down and admit that he was a user?
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Probably. America loves contrition, second chances, etc. The confessional book, the tearful session on Oprah's couch, redemption -- this is practically a ritual by now. Which is why I think he should have just fessed up to at least a tiny piece of it to begin with -- he's set the bar high enough now that he's going to have to wait longer and work harder before the public thinks he's suffered enough and clamors for him to be admitted to the HOF.

(I'm assuming that he wouldn't put himself in any legal trouble by admitting everything several years down the road. Anybody know how long the statute of limitations for perjury is?)
 
#40
#40
volfanbill said:
Did anyone else feel like the whole hearing was useless because it was if you had a couple of Roger/Yankee homers that wouldn't believe McNamee if he had a videotape of himself injecting with Roger while Roger was talking about what this particular steroid would do and on the other side there were the typical Roger haters who just wanted to see him go down?
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In listening to it, kind of looked like everything was drawn down party lines. It was a waste of time! One person(not sure who) actually asked which jersey he would wear to the hall of fame. He was thanked for his service to the Yankees and one female actually told him she would see him in heaven! What the hell is going on in our government? I thought this fiasco was about trying to find out some truth! Some of these guys acted like star struck sports groupees!
 
#41
#41
Vercingetorix said:
Probably. America loves contrition, second chances, etc. The confessional book, the tearful session on Oprah's couch, redemption -- this is practically a ritual by now. Which is why I think he should have just fessed up to at least a tiny piece of it to begin with -- he's set the bar high enough now that he's going to have to wait longer and work harder before the public thinks he's suffered enough and clamors for him to be admitted to the HOF.

(I'm assuming that he wouldn't put himself in any legal trouble by admitting everything several years down the road. Anybody know how long the statute of limitations for perjury is?)
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I admit that I thought Clemens was juicing long before the idea for the Mitchell investigation was even thought about, but with all the mounting evidence I don't see how anyone can believe Clemens. The only thing I find odd is that his wife is ok with admitting she used HGH, while Roger steadfastly denies his use.
 
#42
#42
KB5252 said:
In listening to it, kind of looked like everything was drawn down party lines. It was a waste of time! One person(not sure who) actually asked which jersey he would wear to the hall of fame. He was thanked for his service to the Yankees and one female actually told him she would see him in heaven! What the hell is going on in our government? I thought this fiasco was about trying to find out some truth! Some of these guys acted like star struck sports groupees!
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glad I'm not the only one who thought that. I thought the heaven comment actually came off as sarcasm but i was barely listening at that point. I'm pretty sure i threw up when the congressman said a friend wanted to know what jersey he was going to the HOF in. It was ridiculous that he got to schmooze the committee members last week by going door to door for their friendly little chats. As i said before, McNamee is a first class scumbag and fortunately yesterday showed that. However, it was annoying that some people treated Clemens like royalty. I still think ultimately his iconic presence was overshadowed by all the mounting evidence.
 
#43
#43
Total agreement volfanbill McNamee is a firstclass scumbag but when you think about it what does he get by doing this? He opens himself up to more possible charges with everything he says. He will never again be able to milk the cashcow that was major league baseball. And he opens himself up to ridicule. If you ask me you can probably believe about half of what he says but even with half Roger is still as guilty as they come!
 
#44
#44
KB5252 said:
In listening to it, kind of looked like everything was drawn down party lines. It was a waste of time! One person(not sure who) actually asked which jersey he would wear to the hall of fame. He was thanked for his service to the Yankees and one female actually told him she would see him in heaven! What the hell is going on in our government? I thought this fiasco was about trying to find out some truth! Some of these guys acted like star struck sports groupees!
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That struck me as a fairly sarcastic comment about how forgiving Clemens claimed to be to the people around him. Now he publicly blames everybody else for everything, yet at the time, he kept associating with them, rehiring them, etc.
 
#45
#45
Vercingetorix said:
That struck me as a fairly sarcastic comment about how forgiving Clemens claimed to be to the people around him. Now he publicly blames everybody else for everything, yet at the time, he kept associating with them, rehiring them, etc.
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I just heard clips so I might have the context wrong, Thank you
 
#46
#46
one final tidbit about yesterday's hearings that i believe Jayson Stark brought up: With all the other questioning, couldn't someone have asked Roger about the Piazza bat incident while he was under oath?
 
#47
#47
I used to like Clemens. Now I just think the guy is a clown. His hardass approach joined with the public speaking skills of a Freshman in High School just made him look like the simpelton idiot he is. The Bulldog approach that is needed on the mound, to me, doesn't translate well into the court.

Also, his throwdown on when his country asked him to come play for the good ole' US of A that he was there. Seriously, man? Seriously. Just go home and enjoy your millions.

I love baseball, but this crap just makes the game a joke.
 
#48
#48
Business said:
Also, his throwdown on when his country asked him to come play for the good ole' US of A that he was there. Seriously, man? Seriously. Just go home and enjoy your millions.
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I missed that part. He really said that? Pretty astounding that a guy who made a million dollars a start last year would play the "standing up for my country" card when American soldiers are still dying regularly in Iraq.

Thank you, Mister Clemens, for risking everything and flying to California to pitch in a baseball game. Your selflessness will never be forgotten.
 
#49
#49
Vercingetorix said:
I missed that part. He really said that? Pretty astounding that a guy who made a million dollars a start last year would play the "standing up for my country" card when American soldiers are still dying regularly in Iraq.

Thank you, Mister Clemens, for risking everything and flying to California to pitch in a baseball game. Your selflessness will never be forgotten.
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It was in context to the Mitchell Report crew getting ahold of him to talk about what the trainer said.

He was saying that, "by god, I'm Roger Clemens and if the good ole USA can find me to pitch for the country, then they can do it to ask me bout em' roids' with no trouble cause I'm a public figure"

Basically saying that no contact was made.
 
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