Cliff Lee To The Phillies.

#30
#30
GAVol said:
There's just no good way to spin this if you're a Braves fan.
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Sure there is. Rollins has been damn near terrible for two years and is always hurt, Utley is always hurt, Werth is gone, Ibanez isn't getting any younger, Brown may or may not be the chosen one. There's a decent chance their offense will be as bad next year as it was in the middle of this year. The pitching will win them a bunch of games, but they will be far from unbeatable.
 
#33
#33
GAVol said:
There's just no good way to spin this if you're a Braves fan.
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Braves fans should know better than anybody that overspending on starting pitching guarantees nothing in October.

I'd be a lot more concerned if they'd spent the money on Carl Crawford or traded for Adrian Gonzalez. As it is, they've bought into the same model that the Braves used in the 90s to win 14 division championships and only one WS. They will probably win over 100 games and take the division easily, just like the Braves always did, but they've done nothing to improve the lineup, which will be a year older and missing Jason Werth. An excess of starting pitching doesn't help you much in the playoffs if your lineup is sketchy.

It wouldn't bother me at all for the Braves to play the role of the Marlins in 1997 and 2003.
 
#34
#34
GAVol said:
Not sure what the deal looks like but I juust read that Lee may have left $50 million on the table by not signing with the Yankees.
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If that's true, he was never going to NY in the first place.

Good spin for Braves fan (and everybody else, really): one of the bigger FA signees in recent history just gave a big middle finger to the Evil Empire.

I can't even talk myself into seeing less than 100 wins and a WS appearance for this club, though. Sure, the Yankees and their giant payroll get bit fairly often but they're in the AL. Nobody in the NL is close to Philly right now.
 
#37
#37
Vercingetorix said:
Braves fans should know better than anybody that overspending on starting pitching guarantees nothing in October.

I'd be a lot more concerned if they'd spent the money on Carl Crawford or traded for Adrian Gonzalez. As it is, they've bought into the same model that the Braves used in the 90s to win 14 division championships and only one WS. They will probably win over 100 games and take the division easily, just like the Braves always did, but they've done nothing to improve the lineup, which will be a year older and missing Jason Werth. An excess of starting pitching doesn't help you much in the playoffs if your lineup is sketchy.

It wouldn't bother me at all for the Braves to play the role of the Marlins in 1997 and 2003.
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Agree somewhat, but this staff doesn't need the umping help that the braves crews did in their big run. Power strike throwers win in the postseason. Guys needing corners can win, but another variable against is bad in a play to odds type game.
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#38
#38
Vercingetorix said:
Braves fans should know better than anybody that overspending on starting pitching guarantees nothing in October.
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That is actually a good point. The 2011 Phillies are going to look a lot like the mid-late 90s Braves that were running Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Neagle and Millwood out to the mound .
 
#39
#39
I'm really trying to decide that at least on paper if this staff is better than the mid-90s Braves staff.
 
#40
#40
tigervol9802 said:
I'm really trying to decide that at least on paper if this staff is better than the mid-90s Braves staff.
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A few of those staffs were so good, that I don't think you can really compare them to anybody until you've seen someone else do it.

Check out the stats for the 1993 Braves starters. The top 4 guys had 75 wins, an ERA right at 3.00 and were closing in on a combined 1,000 innings pitched.

.http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/1993.shtml
 
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#42
#42
BigPapaVol said:
Agree somewhat, but this staff doesn't need the umping help that the braves crews did in their big run. Power strike throwers win in the postseason. Guys needing corners can win, but another variable against is bad in a play to odds type game.
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I just don't think it matters much. The Braves didn't lose in the playoffs because their starters pitched poorly at all; they lost because they were always a bat or two short. They thought they were better than they really were because a rotation like that covers a lot of blemishes; you can pretty much coast to 100 wins and the division title every year. But then you get in the playoffs against good teams, and suddenly the gap between your pitching and their pitching isn't as big as the gap between their lineup and your lineup. Good hitting hits great pitching better than mediocre hitting hits really good pitching.

The Phillies would have to have a few things go wrong for their lineup to be subpar in 2011, but with Werth gone, Rollins decrepit, and Utley fragile, it's certainly within the realm of possibility. They should have added another bat instead.
 
#44
#44
hatvol96 said:
The laughter you hear is coming from the 415 area code.
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Why would anybody in San Francisco be laughing? They have a lineup good enough to score six runs a game in the World Series and beat Cliff Lee twice. Nothing sketchy about that offense at all -- solid producers 3-6 and no black holes anywhere else.
 
#45
#45
Vercingetorix said:
Why would anybody in San Francisco be laughing? They have a lineup good enough to score six runs a game in the World Series and beat Cliff Lee twice. Nothing sketchy about that offense at all -- solid producers 3-6 and no black holes anywhere else.
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Yeah, bunch of real studs in that lineup. I bet they're jacked about defending a title with Aubrey Huff and Cody Ross anchoring the offense. Christ, that is one of the two or three worst lineups in the last 30 years to win a World Title. The list of teams in that era to win the title with a worse starting 8 consists of: The 1985 Kansas City Royals.
 
#46
#46
JTrainDavis said:
Where is the Phil's lineup any sketchier than any other team in the NL at the moment?
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With Werth gone, they're down to two real difference-makers in the lineup. Unless Carlos Ruiz duplicates his career year again, I just don't see it. Rollins is done. Victorino doesn't scare anybody. Their stats will be inflated by their bandbox ballpark, but this is a pedestrian lineup, and one Utley/Howard injury or slump away from being awful.
 
#47
#47
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, bunch of real studs in that lineup. I bet they're jacked about defending a title with Aubrey Huff and Cody Ross anchoring the offense. Christ, that is one of the two or three worst lineups in the last 30 years to win a World Title. The list of teams in that era to win the title with a worse starting 8 consists of: The 1985 Kansas City Royals.
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And yet they won the World Series because those losers beat the unhittable Cliff Lee twice and scored six runs a game. The Giants hit even better than they pitched in that series. Yes, Aubrey Huff is a retread, but he had a good 2010. Cody Ross had a good season. Buster Posey was ROY. It's not like it was a complete fluke when they beat the hell out of the ball in the WS.

My point wasn't that you can have too much pitching -- because that would be stupid, obviously -- but just that you can get to the point where the resources you spend on extra starting pitching could have been better deployed elsewhere. The Phillies needed a bat to replace Werth a lot more than they needed a fourth starter.
 
#48
#48
milohimself said:
If that's true, he was never going to NY in the first place.

Good spin for Braves fan (and everybody else, really): one of the bigger FA signees in recent history just gave a big middle finger to the Evil Empire.

I can't even talk myself into seeing less than 100 wins and a WS appearance for this club, though. Sure, the Yankees and their giant payroll get bit fairly often but they're in the AL. Nobody in the NL is close to Philly right now.
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Which is why I love this.
 
#49
#49
Conan said that the Yankees were so upset about Lee signing with the Phils that it left them no choice but to buy the Phillies.
 
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