Clinton - Obama Debate

[volinbham]

Anyone watch it? They had some pretty interesting answers about taxes.

Both essentially took a pledge not to raise a single tax on people making less than $250K.

However, on further examination:

Obama suggested raising the SS threshold where you stop paying payroll tax - he stumbled badly when it was pointed out that since the threshold is around 97K then his raising would increase the taxes of many people below 250K

More telling was that they both initially favored a raise in the capital gains tax claiming it favors the wealthy. Neither handled it very well when it was pointed out to them that:

1. about 100 million people own stock - this could effectively raise their taxes (violation of the pledge) and

2. when the cap gains tax has been lowered, the revenue from that tax has gone up. When the cap has been raised, the revenue from that tax has gone down. Undaunted, they both indicated they favored raising the cap gains tax eventhough history says that will reduce tax revenues.

Both claim to be trying to wipe out the deficit but their answers showed more of a get the rich to pay more taxes view than a get the right amount of revenue view.

No surprise.

 

[utvolpj]

Last night was one of the few I've watched of the Dems and thought that Obama moment so a good one by the mod.

It was similar to HC talking about NY gun laws

 

[Vol Mania 21]

If I'm not mistaken didn't B. Clinton also pledge not to raise taxes? It's the same ole same ole b.s. w/ the democrats. they pledge not to raise taxes then they get in the white house and give us all this garbage about how they didnt know "how bad" it really is because they didn't have the actual numbers, and then they tax everyone out the butthole

 

[utvolpj]

Also funny was the mod saying it was shown that lowering the cap gains rate actually increased funds right after oBAMA had said he would raise the rate.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

they are so full of b.s.

 

[volinbham]

If I'm not mistaken didn't B. Clinton also pledge not to raise taxes? It's the same ole same ole b.s. w/ the democrats. they pledge not to raise taxes then they get in the white house and give us all this garbage about how they didnt know "how bad" it really is because they didn't have the actual numbers, and then they tax everyone out the butthole

Yes - she said it first and more forcefully. Then she said she might raise the cap gains tax (even after it was pointed out that this might reduce revenue) but no higher than it was during the Clinton admin (the very end of the Clinton admin - way to be your own person HC!).

The fact that people who make less than $250K pay cap gains is apparently lost on these two.

 

[OWB]

So how is the U.S. going to get the deficit down without taxes?

We can thank Bush for whatever taxes we have to pay in the future.

 

[volsforever27]

So how is the U.S. going to get the deficit down without taxes?

We can thank Bush for whatever taxes we have to pay in the future.

There are plenty of ways to reduce the defecit without raising taxes... cutting wasteful speding for one (I'm sure you'll bring up the war, but look at actual govt spending). If you want to pay higher taxes, be my guest, but I like my money where it is.

 

[tim]

So how is the U.S. going to get the deficit down without taxes?

We can thank Bush for whatever taxes we have to pay in the future.

Stop building billion dollar bridges to nowhere in Alaska is a good start. Stop giving money to shiftless people, also a good place to look. In other words people need to call out some of this pork. And blame Bush is pretty easy, but very few voted against either war and I for one find it hard to blame one person for some of our troubles right now.

Please answer me this one question.. How can you vote for someone knowing full well they are going to take more money from you and give it to someone too worthless to do something for themself? Disregard if you are a Rep.

 

[GAVol]

So how is the U.S. going to get the deficit down without taxes?

Google the term "Laffer Curve". Increased tax rates don't necessarily yield increased revenue.

 

[tim]

I heard that George Snuffleufagus had some tough questions for Obama.. Still a little cozy with the Clintons I see.

 

[OWB]

I find it comical that some people who are "so proud to be an American" want to sacrifice nothing for this country. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[volinbham]

As GAVol pointed out, raising taxes doesn't necessarily lead to increased revenue.

As noted in this post, history suggests that raising the capital gains tax actually lowers the amount of revenue.

 

[volinbham]

I find it comical that some people who are "so proud to be an American" want to sacrifice nothing for this country. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Disagree with your analogy but glad to see you back in the political forum eace2:

 

[iceman9]

I find it comical that some people who are "so proud to be an American" want to sacrifice nothing for this country. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I show how proud I am every day. I go to work, pay my taxes, would you like a arm and a leg too. At least I could draw disability.

 

[volsforever27]

So how is the U.S. going to get the deficit down without taxes?

We can thank Bush for whatever taxes we have to pay in the future.

lol: So I'm not a real American cause I don't want to pay higher taxes?

 

[Freak]

I find it comical that some people who are "so proud to be an American" want to sacrifice nothing for this country. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'd say I'd rather 'sacrifice' on my own terms versus having someone telling me when, where and how much I have to sacrifice.

 

[VolinArizona]

I find it comical that some people who are "so proud to be an American" want to sacrifice nothing for this country. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's the thing: this country was founded on that very false belief.

 

[OWB]

lol: So I'm not a real American cause I don't want to pay higher taxes?

I can't talk to you, you think that Clinton was more incompetent than Bush. That kind of genius is better left alone.

 

[OWB]

I'd say I'd rather 'sacrifice' on my own terms versus having someone telling me when, where and how much I have to sacrifice.

Cutting back on the XBOX isn't going to do much, but OK.

 

[OWB]

As GAVol pointed out, raising taxes doesn't necessarily lead to increased revenue.
.

Of course it doesn't, you're a Republican.

 

[tim]

I find it comical that some people who are "so proud to be an American" want to sacrifice nothing for this country. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I find it comical that some people cant open their eyes and see that what they are sacrificing for this country is being wasted on worthless people/programs -that make socialists feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[volinbham]

Of course it doesn't, you're a Republican.

My party affiliation has nothing to do with an economic phenomenon.

If the goal is increased revenue, history has provided considerable evidence that raising the cap gains rate lowers revenue.

If the goal is to try to make the "rich" pay more even if it reduces the revenue (and grows the deficit all else being equal) then raising the cap gains rate is the right thing to do.

Here's some reading on the subject:

The Economic Effects of Capital Gains Taxation

I'm not advocating a lower of the cap gains rate. However, both dem candidates wish to raise the rate which history has shown will have both negative economic impact and lower tax revenues. It will allow them to say they stuck it to the "rich" while in reality, they'll be sticking it to all of us.

 

[Freak]

Cutting back on the XBOX isn't going to do much, but OK.

Who said anything about xbox? I'm not giving that up!

I heard about a new bill yesterday that will allow people to easily/clearly pay additional taxes.

Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is (Bill introduced by Congressman John Campbell)

"Proud Americans" can have a field day and give until it hurts if they so choose.

Under this bill, all those people who want to see the Bush tax cuts repealed could easily pay that extra tax.

 

[GAVol]

Of course it doesn't, you're a Republican.

There are a lot of Democrats that have managed to grasp the concept as well.