Coaching Comparison

#29
#29
VFL-82-JP said:
I think it has become less useful, and frankly un-important, to compare Josh Heupel to the four fellas who came before. Don't even need to look at win/loss records or stats to know, intuitively, he is a far better coach than any of them.

The real question to ponder is where Josh Heupel will eventually stack up in comparison to the best coaches in Vols football history. In short, will Josh outshine Johnny Majors? Doug Dickey? Phillip Fulmer? John Barnhill? Perhaps even the General?

In my mind, I already see Heupel in that group. Somewhere. Too early to know where. But certainly he will be one of the top 6 coaches all-time for our program.

I'd love nothing more than for him to become our new #1. That's a tall order. Shouldn't expect it. But it would be awesome.

I can certainly see him, after a long and storied career in Knoxville, being our new #2, outshining everyone but Neyland. That seems entirely realistic to me.

One thing is for sure: these next 20-40 years are going to be a blast.

Go Vols!
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A career winning percentage of .800 or better places coaches in exceedingly rarified company. As this list (Top All-Time Coaches by Winning Percentage) indicates, there are only 14 all-time, two of which are active: Dabo Swinney (12th) and Saban (14th). Neyland, with a winning percentage of .829, is 9th overall. Predictably, for the period that bracketed Neyland's career (1926-1952), Tennessee led the nation in wins (209) and winning percentage (81818). See I-A Winning Percentage 1926-1952.
 
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#30
#30
Most of you said by year two you would know if Heupel was the guy.... Obviously he is.. with this roster, not saying these cant play because Heupel has them rolling.... Imagine what he could do with late 90s rosters. Give him time and pay the man
 
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#31
#31
Neyland was the best coach in Tennessee history hands down. I think our guy can put us on that level of 75 to 80 %. This aint Butch Jones Corn Bread.... Fulmer got close at around 70%... I truly believe in CJH
 
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#33
#33
BigALWiLson said:
Our biggest mistake was taking Fulmer as AD and Pruitt as HC
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In a series of fatal mistakes, does it really matter which one was MORE fatal? If you already drank a lethal dose of poison, does it really matter if you then fall off a cliff?
 
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#34
#34
Hacksaw said:
You forgot the biggest reason: He was willing to take the job.
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I agree, but he was AD and Head Coach at LT. He probably called Hamilton before Hamilton even thought about calling him.

Head Coaching Job at UT. Hmmm, Pay is good, with a great buyout, an SEC school, and felt he could turn it around. If not all he had to do is hold water.

Problem with Dooley was that he strategized and philosophized way too much, but his history lessons were great and his analogy of showering were just as good.

One of the few Coaches that watch young men shower and commented on it.

Another Dumb hire by Hamilton that was probably influenced by certain members on the Board.
Think about the hires, Kiffin, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt not all were by Hamilton, but the Board had its hands in it. what a setback.

White has done more for UT Athletics than all of those listed combined, Hamilton, Cronan, Hart, Currie, and Fulmer.
 
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#36
#36
As many have already mentioned, our troubles went beyond coaching. When Dickey retired as athletic director our troubles began. And it wasn’t until Danny White was hired that not only football started trending better, but many of our other sports as well. I went to UT in the 90’s…yep, our football was good during that era, no doubt about it, but so was women’s basketball, softball, baseball, cross country, track and field, tennis, golf, swimming, etc…it’s no coincidence that our AD was good then as well! White has us rolling in many sports just like Dickey did this is what’s most exciting in my humble opinion! GBO!
 
#37
#37
volzonemat said:
Our biggest mistake of all was hiring Dooley. Worst hire than Jones and Pruitt. That was when it all went downhill.
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Not even close. Dooley started with nothing. The roster may have been worse than what Heupel inherited.

Jones inherited the head start of an OL with 5 NFL caliber starters plus a D with several future NFL players. He had a generational recruiting class filled with legacies and UT homers. He was by far given the best circumstance for success of anyone since Fulmer was fired... and CONSISTENTLY under performed his talent.

Dooley wasn't a good HC. He tried to recruit while keeping "quality of life" for his assistants. He thought switching to a 3-4 was a good idea when it was in fact a terrible idea given the talent and potential on offense. But Jones just wasn't a serious person. He was a walking, talking joke of a human being and football coach. You have to judge in the context of the circumstance they worked in. In that light, Jones was the worst. He blew UT's best opportunity from a talent standpoint to return to the top.

So far, what we've seen on the field is primarily Heupel's talent... not player talent. That is a radical departure from the previous coaches... including Fulmer without Cutcliffe.
 
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#40
#40
volfan_28 said:
The biggest difference to me, besides the W/L and crazy stats, is how much more fun the players are having and it started before they played a single game. You could see it in the spring of 2021. This staff believes in playing loose and having fun.
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And it’s just so much more enjoyable to watch. I enjoyed Heupel’s 7-6 first year more than Pruitt’s 8-5 year.
 
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#41
#41
BLUTickbusdriver said:
As many have already mentioned, our troubles went beyond coaching. When Dickey retired as athletic director our troubles began. And it wasn’t until Danny White was hired that not only football started trending better, but many of our other sports as well. I went to UT in the 90’s…yep, our football was good during that era, no doubt about it, but so was women’s basketball, softball, baseball, cross country, track and field, tennis, golf, swimming, etc…it’s no coincidence that our AD was good then as well! White has us rolling in many sports just like Dickey did this is what’s most exciting in my humble opinion! GBO!
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Actually, baseball and men’s basketball were already either doing well or on the way up. I attribute a lot of this turn to bringing in Randy Boyd. Getting leadership in the university that actually cared about UT sports and someone that understands how everything with the school thrives, including attendance, when sports are good was huge. Of course it takes a lot of the right people to turn the ship of collegiate athletics like we have but I believe Randy has been the biggest piece.
 
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#43
#43
ScornedPapaVol said:
Gotta recruit that type of talent, it isn't just "given".
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Some of the very same folks who routinely (and correctly) assert that "a head coach is his win-loss record, results are all that matters at the end of the day," those same folks will twist their thoughts and the facts into pretzels in order to avoid giving Fulmer any credit at all.

It astounds me, every time I see it. And we see it all the time on these boards.

The man won a whole heck of a lot over a period of 16 years. He didn't win any titles with "Johnny's recruits" or "Johnny's winning culture," Nope, by the time Fulmer was winning titles, Johnny had already been gone half a decade. Not a single player remained who played for Johnny Majors. Plenty of time over those years for the program culture to go south if Fulmer wasn't an inspiring leader to both the players and the assistant coaches.

A 75% win rate. 152-52. A national crown. Two SEC crowns.

A coach is his win-loss record. Phillip Fulmer was the second (or third, if you're a John Barnhill admirer) best head coach in Tennessee history.

But watch his detractors find ways to say he isn't. Amazing.

Go Vols!
 
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#46
#46
Elhanan said:
The progress made by Coach Hype is obviously very impressive. So I thought it would be fun to go back in Doc Browns time machine to just a few short years ago.

Lane Kiffin (7-6)
Derek Dooley (15-21)
Butch Jones (34-27)
Jeremy Pruitt (17-19)
Josh Heupel (18-8)

If trends continue CJH could be sitting around* the 38-12 mark over the next few season. That’s assuming a lot but still fun to see what could be. Hell, it could be even better.

And yes you’re seeing that right. Coach Hype already has more wins than 3/4 most recent coaches. Lol
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#47
#47
VFL-82-JP said:
I think it has become less useful, and frankly un-important, to compare Josh Heupel to the four fellas who came before. Don't even need to look at win/loss records or stats to know, intuitively, he is a far better coach than any of them.

The real question to ponder is where Josh Heupel will eventually stack up in comparison to the best coaches in Vols football history. In short, will Josh outshine Johnny Majors? Doug Dickey? Phillip Fulmer? John Barnhill? Perhaps even the General?

In my mind, I already see Heupel in that group. Somewhere. Too early to know where. But certainly he will be one of the top 6 coaches all-time for our program.

I'd love nothing more than for him to become our new #1. That's a tall order. Shouldn't expect it. But it would be awesome.

I can certainly see him, after a long and storied career in Knoxville, being our new #2, outshining everyone but Neyland. That seems entirely realistic to me.

One thing is for sure: these next 20-40 years are going to be a blast.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
He will be second to General Neyland when it’s all said and done. Hard to top the General when the Stadium is named after you. Most Heupel can do is the statue after a few Nattys.
 
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#48
#48
perico said:
It was either those two or Currie and Schiano, so it was literally a no win situation.
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Having Fulmer as AD was a good thing it was the only way to get that man outta here when he failed. Thank goodness he did. Now he is no longer a festering ulcer on the University.
 
#49
#49
TheFlash1971 said:
He will be second to General Neyland when it’s all said and done. Hard to top the General when the Stadium is named after you. Most Heupel can do is the statue after a few Nattys.
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I was thinking about this earlier today.

It would be kinda fun to set up a series of metrics for gauging when Josh "passes" each of our five best previous coaches. Like, pick one metric from each, a metric that kind of defines that coach's excellence.

Not sure how it would play out, as I didn't take the thought any further. Maybe something along these lines:
  • Doug Dickey -- undefeated season in conference play ('67)
  • Johnny Majors -- three conference titles ('85, '89, '90)
  • Phillip Fulmer -- national title ('98)
  • John Barnhill -- Sugar Bowl victory ('42 season) -- Vols first time ever winning the crown bowl of the Southeastern Conference
  • General Robert Neyland -- hard to come up with a fair one for the General. Four national titles? Six conference championships? A .829 win rate? A season unbeaten, untied, and unscored upon? Hmmm...just really hard to find a Neyland mark that anyone--anyone--can realistically exceed. I'll keep thinking on this one.

I didn't want to pick anything impossible or near-impossible. That wouldn't be any fun. For instance, the single most impressive stat about John Barnhill's tenure was his .846 win rate sustained over the four years Neyland was in WWII...a win/loss ratio even better than the General's. We will probably never see that matched, so it wouldn't be much fun on a list of goals for Heupel.
 
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#50
#50
knox73 said:
Worst hire was Kiffin. That impudent snake torpedoed Fulmer’s solid recruiting class and replaced them with thugs. Hamilton - who screwed the pooch hiring Lane compounded the mistake with Dooley - but given the circumstances Dooley was about as good as wanted the job. Lesson number 1 - if you fire a hall of fame coach without a sound succession plan- and particularly turn over a major program to an immature brat - the downfall and incidental damage may last for decades.
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I disagree. I think if the USC hiring process didn't melt down Kiffin would have worked out fine. He has proven to be a good head coach.. he followed his heart into an even bigger (at the time) dumpster fire at USC than was at UT.

Then again I think any coach would have had issues here during that era. Honestly I think once the rest of the administration turned over we were finally ready to move forward. If we'd say hired Huepel instead of on of the others I have a feeling the results wouldn't have been what we see now.
 
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