Cool Manning story if it's true

#29
#29
Rockytoptalker said:
There were a lot of Union sympathizers throughout TN, but I never heard of a city (Knoxville in this case) wanting to break off from TN and remain with the Union.

Also that really doesn't have any bearing on why people sympathize with the Confederacy today.
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Tennesseans representing twenty-six East Tennessee counties met twice in Greeneville and Knoxville and agreed to secede from Tennessee. They petitioned the state legislature in Nashville, which denied their request to secede and sent Confederate troops under Felix Zollicoffer to occupy East Tennessee and prevent secession.
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From here: Tennessee in the American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#30
#30
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#31
#31
Rockytoptalker said:
There were a lot of Union sympathizers throughout TN, but I never heard of a city (Knoxville in this case) wanting to break off from TN and remain with the Union.

Also that really doesn't have any bearing on why people sympathize with the Confederacy today.
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So this is something that I've never really understood. Why do people sympathize with the Confederacy today? I've heard people argue about "heritage," but if you live in a solidly pro-union area that doesn't make sense. Obviously, no one wants to talk about the ethnic component but it's really pretty unavoidable when you're talking about the Civil War. It seems like there should be easier and less racially charged ways to support state's rights. I don't get it.
 
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#33
#33
Col_Cathcart said:
So this is something that I've never really understood. Why do people sympathize with the Confederacy today? I've heard people argue about "heritage," but if you live in a solidly pro-union area that doesn't make sense. Obviously, no one wants to talk about the ethnic component but it's really pretty unavoidable when you're talking about the Civil War. It seems like there should be easier and less racially charged ways to support state's rights. I don't get it.
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The civil war was ignited by power taken away from the states. Slavery was involved, but it was really the north telling the south how to live, which really didn't set well with the elites. Some slaves even fought for the south.
 
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#34
#34
East Tennessee didn't want to secede because East Tennessee didn't have a slave-based economy because of simple geography. You couldn't do the same kind of farming in East Tennessee that you could in the rest of the state and much of the south. So slavery wasn't important to East Tennessee.

This is the kind of detail that lets us modern folks know that the states' rights argument was mostly just rhetorical BS that secessionists used to argue their case. It's hard to imagine that East Tennesseans at the time weren't an ornery, hard-nosed, screw-the-feds bunch -- just as they are now. Yet they overwhelmingly wanted to remain with the Union. Did they happen to be the only part of the state that didn't care about states' rights? Or was it because everyone alive at the time knew that the war was really over slavery, and East Tennessee didn't depend on it? Seems pretty simple.
 
#35
#35
Rockytoptalker said:
There were a lot of Union sympathizers throughout TN, but I never heard of a city (Knoxville in this case) wanting to break off from TN and remain with the Union.

Also that really doesn't have any bearing on why people sympathize with the Confederacy today.
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Never heard of The Independent State of Scott I guess.
 
#37
#37
f77f00 said:
Our Peyton performed a lot better than the Confederate Peyton did in Knoxville.

Off-topic but it amazes my how many around here sympathize with the Confederacy when Knoxville (and E.TN in general) tried desperately to remain in the Union and wanted nothing to do with secession.
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It's not amazing when you look at the overall ethno-centric behavior tendency of the USA from colonial times to the present. Patterns repeat themselves. they may retreat at periodic points in history but reappear persistently. Especially societal, religious, and political patterns. this is why America swings like a pendulum between one extreme to another. Example: A very large portion of the free love (hippie) generation are among the most conservative and narrow-thinking people today. We were all gung ho in getting to the moon before the Soviets, then promptly cut the legs from beneath that NASA instead of colonizing the moon which was firmly in our ability. You had a team of the greatest technical problem-solving people ever assembled across various industrial and scientific backgrounds and didn't use it in the post Apollo era. There's more but typically, no one wants to hear it. And that's another reason patterns repeat.
 
#38
#38
roddo518 said:
The civil war was ignited by power taken away from the states. Slavery was involved, but it was really the north telling the south how to live, which really didn't set well with the elites. Some slaves even fought for the south.
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A word on the slaves who fought for the South. It's irrelevant given what you're arguing. Slaves were intentionally kept away from being educated, even to just read and write. It is immensely simple to manipulate people when they are ignorant. You can tell nearly any lie you want and they're inclined to believe you. Humans tend to look upon the dominant group whether it be a race, a tribe, a ruling class or whatever, you're seen as:

1. Power 2. Authority 3. The Source etc

If you're told the devils up North are coming to kill your family and everything in the only place you've ever known as home, you put aside a lot to fight against the devil you don't know shoulder to shoulder (so to speak) with the devil you do know. So your reference to the slaves fighting for the South is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with your argument about the war being about state rights. They fought because they were lied to about matters closer to their hearts, which was the existence of their family, and as unsavory as it was, their home. They wouldn't have known what state rights was if you'd have branded it on the back of their hand. War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
 
#39
#39
WoodsmanVol said:
It's not amazing when you look at the overall ethno-centric behavior tendency of the USA from colonial times to the present. Patterns repeat themselves. they may retreat at periodic points in history but reappear persistently. Especially societal, religious, and political patterns. this is why America swings like a pendulum between one extreme to another. Example: A very large portion of the free love (hippie) generation are among the most conservative and narrow-thinking people today. We were all gung ho in getting to the moon before the Soviets, then promptly cut the legs from beneath that NASA instead of colonizing the moon which was firmly in our ability. You had a team of the greatest technical problem-solving people ever assembled across various industrial and scientific backgrounds and didn't use it in the post Apollo era. There's more but typically, no one wants to hear it. And that's another reason patterns repeat.
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Puff puff give, repeat
 
#40
#40
9296potsguy said:
Puff puff give, repeat
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The truth is often only welcome under two circumstances. One, if it glorifies the receiver.
Two, if it denigrates someone else.

When unwelcome, the usual response is commit one of the following:

Deny the truth.
Hide the truth.
Dilute the truth.
Condemn the truth.
Ridicule the truth.
Divert attention from the truth.
Ignore the truth.
Manipulate it so it's no longer the truth.
If possible, kill the messenger of the truth.
 
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